Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 1084335 times)

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ladyknight1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4020 on: July 10, 2013, 12:59:59 PM »
My very small employer is trying to hire a new person for the support staff. One person sent an interesting resume complete with a 6" block of 10 pt text describing duties that seems copied and pasted on the second page. It included duties someone in her position should not and could not do and made us all lift an eyebrow. She was pleasant and honest when phone interviewed so an in-person interview was scheduled. However, when she called back yesterday she was reportedly short and rude with one of the other support staff answered the phone.

This is going to be fun since we'll be down a total of two staff members in 2 weeks and no good leads since my employer doesn't pay well or offer benefits and it's intense work. I'm starting to think it's professional Darwinism to only advertise your open skilled position on Craigslist when you have two months notice to find more staff in order to save $100 and 15 minutes of time despite the rest of your staff's urging to use several other good resources.

The bolded is something I am having difficulty understanding. Why does the position govern job duties? The position I am in at my current employer is a hybrid of many other duties. Is that a possibility in this case?

Hillia

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4021 on: July 10, 2013, 01:04:42 PM »
My very small employer is trying to hire a new person for the support staff. One person sent an interesting resume complete with a 6" block of 10 pt text describing duties that seems copied and pasted on the second page. It included duties someone in her position should not and could not do and made us all lift an eyebrow. She was pleasant and honest when phone interviewed so an in-person interview was scheduled. However, when she called back yesterday she was reportedly short and rude with one of the other support staff answered the phone.

This is going to be fun since we'll be down a total of two staff members in 2 weeks and no good leads since my employer doesn't pay well or offer benefits and it's intense work. I'm starting to think it's professional Darwinism to only advertise your open skilled position on Craigslist when you have two months notice to find more staff in order to save $100 and 15 minutes of time despite the rest of your staff's urging to use several other good resources.

The bolded is something I am having difficulty understanding. Why does the position govern job duties? The position I am in at my current employer is a hybrid of many other duties. Is that a possibility in this case?

Well, if the position was data entry operator, and the duties she listed included supervising other employees, monitoring work flow, ordering supplies, managing boss's schedule, preparing marketing materials, etc, I would wonder.  It could be that her role was more loosely defined at another company, or it could be that she just copy/pasted text from somewhere else.

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wolfie

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4022 on: July 10, 2013, 01:06:56 PM »
Shouldn't the technologically savvy part be in his resume anyway?
If you base yourself on the fact that the person used Words (just used, not know how to really actually use) then you're in for some bad surprises.

If under 'technical' he put that he knows and is proficient with every environment (say windows, mac and linux), can use and help with word processing, research programs, know about setting up networks or things like that..., I don't see why you should trust him less than someone who wrote the same thing but printed it on a computer.

I'm betting technologically savvy for a job like that goes beyond 'I can turn on a computer and go on facebook'.

It should, but when you have so many resumes that you desperately need to figure out a way to cull it down to a manageable number having it typed on a typewriter is one easy way to say "okay - probably isn't really comfortable with tech" and move on to the next one. Yes you might miss out on the best employee ever but that is the chance you will take. Standing out from the crowd is a good thing only if you stand out in a good way, otherwise it is just an easy culling point.

ladyknight1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4023 on: July 10, 2013, 01:07:02 PM »
Ok, that would make more sense. In the current US economy, there are people with advanced degrees working as receptionists and so forth, so I think the "could not do" portion is grossly inaccurate.

Midnight Kitty

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4024 on: July 10, 2013, 02:09:02 PM »
I work for the government (I'm here to help >:D).  The application for internal vacancy is 4 pages long and it's not a "fillable" form.  One must either handwrite or type in the little boxes.  I was a professional secretary before I went to college for my engineering degree, so I know how to use my electric typewriter at home and align the text correctly.  The "tech savvy" kids who only have computers and printers have to use that "high tech" device, the No. 2 pencil or a pen with black or blue ink.  As much as I want to use my favorite pen with the purple glitter ink so I "stand out from the crowd," I think they will take my application more seriously if I demonstrate my ability to follow directions.
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LazyDaisy

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4025 on: July 10, 2013, 03:42:18 PM »
My very small employer is trying to hire a new person for the support staff. One person sent an interesting resume complete with a 6" block of 10 pt text describing duties that seems copied and pasted on the second page. It included duties someone in her position should not and could not do and made us all lift an eyebrow. She was pleasant and honest when phone interviewed so an in-person interview was scheduled. However, when she called back yesterday she was reportedly short and rude with one of the other support staff answered the phone.

This is going to be fun since we'll be down a total of two staff members in 2 weeks and no good leads since my employer doesn't pay well or offer benefits and it's intense work. I'm starting to think it's professional Darwinism to only advertise your open skilled position on Craigslist when you have two months notice to find more staff in order to save $100 and 15 minutes of time despite the rest of your staff's urging to use several other good resources.

The bolded is something I am having difficulty understanding. Why does the position govern job duties? The position I am in at my current employer is a hybrid of many other duties. Is that a possibility in this case?

Well, if the position was data entry operator, and the duties she listed included supervising other employees, monitoring work flow, ordering supplies, managing boss's schedule, preparing marketing materials, etc, I would wonder.  It could be that her role was more loosely defined at another company, or it could be that she just copy/pasted text from somewhere else.

I see both sides:

I learned years ago to put much more stock into the listed job duties than in a job title. When I first started in my career I mistakenly applied for "Graphic Designer" positions that had primarily receptionist's duties with "update the monthly newsletter" and "create marketing materials" thrown in -- which usually turned out to be photocopy price sheets or stuff envelopes. I learned quickly to disregard the job title I was applying for and look very closely at the duties.

It can work the other way too: before I came to the university I work at now, I held the job title of Creative Director. This would imply that I had subordinates, but the duties I listed reflected that I was a graphic designer, part-time IT person, and a bit of a receptionist (answering phones, customer service, etc.) My department consisted of me, myself, and I, and my title was mostly a way for the business owner to sound more important to clients, and a way to "promote" me by adding to my duties without actually paying me more. This was something I had to explain to a very skeptical interviewer (now boss) who wondered why I was applying for a position well below "Creative Director". I think he thought I would ultimately be after his job, or I would want too much money.

Now that I'm in an academic environment, title means everything. There is a huge difference between an Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, and Adjunct Professor. This strict adherence to hierarchy permeates all levels of the university -- Vice > Executive > Director > Manager > Assistant > Associate...and they often even have sub levels too Associate II > Associate III.
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cwm

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4026 on: July 10, 2013, 03:47:28 PM »
My very small employer is trying to hire a new person for the support staff. One person sent an interesting resume complete with a 6" block of 10 pt text describing duties that seems copied and pasted on the second page. It included duties someone in her position should not and could not do and made us all lift an eyebrow. She was pleasant and honest when phone interviewed so an in-person interview was scheduled. However, when she called back yesterday she was reportedly short and rude with one of the other support staff answered the phone.

This is going to be fun since we'll be down a total of two staff members in 2 weeks and no good leads since my employer doesn't pay well or offer benefits and it's intense work. I'm starting to think it's professional Darwinism to only advertise your open skilled position on Craigslist when you have two months notice to find more staff in order to save $100 and 15 minutes of time despite the rest of your staff's urging to use several other good resources.

The bolded is something I am having difficulty understanding. Why does the position govern job duties? The position I am in at my current employer is a hybrid of many other duties. Is that a possibility in this case?

Well, if the position was data entry operator, and the duties she listed included supervising other employees, monitoring work flow, ordering supplies, managing boss's schedule, preparing marketing materials, etc, I would wonder.  It could be that her role was more loosely defined at another company, or it could be that she just copy/pasted text from somewhere else.

I see both sides:

I learned years ago to put much more stock into the listed job duties than in a job title. When I first started in my career I mistakenly applied for "Graphic Designer" positions that had primarily receptionist's duties with "update the monthly newsletter" and "create marketing materials" thrown in -- which usually turned out to be photocopy price sheets or stuff envelopes. I learned quickly to disregard the job title I was applying for and look very closely at the duties.

It can work the other way too: before I came to the university I work at now, I held the job title of Creative Director. This would imply that I had subordinates, but the duties I listed reflected that I was a graphic designer, part-time IT person, and a bit of a receptionist (answering phones, customer service, etc.) My department consisted of me, myself, and I, and my title was mostly a way for the business owner to sound more important to clients, and a way to "promote" me by adding to my duties without actually paying me more. This was something I had to explain to a very skeptical interviewer (now boss) who wondered why I was applying for a position well below "Creative Director". I think he thought I would ultimately be after his job, or I would want too much money.

Now that I'm in an academic environment, title means everything. There is a huge difference between an Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, and Adjunct Professor. This strict adherence to hierarchy permeates all levels of the university -- Vice > Executive > Director > Manager > Assistant > Associate...and they often even have sub levels too Associate II > Associate III.

See, where I work, Associate III > Associate II. In some departments. Not in others. So when someone says they're a Widget Control Specialist Level II and someone else is a Gizmo Insertion Expert Level III, I have a hard time knowing who has more superiority, as their jobs are similar but levels go different ways. It hurts my head.

HorseFreak

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4027 on: July 10, 2013, 04:18:36 PM »
My very small employer is trying to hire a new person for the support staff. One person sent an interesting resume complete with a 6" block of 10 pt text describing duties that seems copied and pasted on the second page. It included duties someone in her position should not and could not do and made us all lift an eyebrow. She was pleasant and honest when phone interviewed so an in-person interview was scheduled. However, when she called back yesterday she was reportedly short and rude with one of the other support staff answered the phone.

This is going to be fun since we'll be down a total of two staff members in 2 weeks and no good leads since my employer doesn't pay well or offer benefits and it's intense work. I'm starting to think it's professional Darwinism to only advertise your open skilled position on Craigslist when you have two months notice to find more staff in order to save $100 and 15 minutes of time despite the rest of your staff's urging to use several other good resources.

The bolded is something I am having difficulty understanding. Why does the position govern job duties? The position I am in at my current employer is a hybrid of many other duties. Is that a possibility in this case?

Let's just say it would be illegal and WAY beyond her education level. Kind of like the the receptionist at your psychiatrist's office prescribing your antidepressant. It's not something that you just teach to whoever you want like regular office duties and requires formal, advanced education. "Could not" in my field is often applicable.

ETA: We think it was copied and pasted because it was in a block of text that listed appropriate job duties for the position. It was if a Burger King employee wrote, "...cooked burgers, mopped floor, ran cash register, performed tax accounting for entire store, maintained fryer, made weekly employee schedule..." It stuck out if you read the block from heck.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 04:29:37 PM by HorseFreak »

ladyknight1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4028 on: July 10, 2013, 04:29:40 PM »
That makes way more sense. Sorry, I had to redefine my duties lately, and I do a lot of things that aren't really job specific.


Thipu1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4029 on: July 10, 2013, 05:15:26 PM »
I wouldn't necessarily equate typewritten resumes as being not technologically savvy, I see it rather that they have an appreciation for older things.

I think this would actually be a good quality in a librarian.  Personally, I'd at least want to talk to the candidate with a phone interview (even if you aren't doing phone screenings in general).

Oh, he came in for an interview.  Because I'd have to work with whoever was hired, I was included in the selection process.  The guy knew what he was doing on the Ancient Middle Eastern front but was firmly locked into the 1960s. He went tharn when asked about suggestions for an on-line catalog. I kind of felt sorry for the poor guy. 

The Uber-Boss was convinced that we'd be inundated with applications from world-class scholars.
  We received all of three applications and she was getting desperate.   

Dindrane

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4030 on: July 10, 2013, 11:43:06 PM »
I work for the government (I'm here to help >:D).  The application for internal vacancy is 4 pages long and it's not a "fillable" form.  One must either handwrite or type in the little boxes.  I was a professional secretary before I went to college for my engineering degree, so I know how to use my electric typewriter at home and align the text correctly.  The "tech savvy" kids who only have computers and printers have to use that "high tech" device, the No. 2 pencil or a pen with black or blue ink.  As much as I want to use my favorite pen with the purple glitter ink so I "stand out from the crowd," I think they will take my application more seriously if I demonstrate my ability to follow directions.

Me, I go even more high tech than a No. 2 pencil or a pen. I have Acrobat Pro (both at home and at work, as it happens), and you can create fillable forms using that software. In fact, if you take a non-fillable form and say you want to edit it, Acrobat will ask you if you would like it to analyze the form and create fields for you. It's not 100% accurate, but it's pretty good for an automated process.


Shalamar

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4031 on: July 11, 2013, 11:22:36 AM »
There are a couple of ladies who sit close to me who may be committing PD.  They're very nice, and very friendly, and very sociable - and VERY LOUD.  They tend to have long conversations with lots of top-volume comments and laughter, and they're pretty disruptive.   The PD part is that, whenever one of the supervisors says something like "Boy, you guys are loud" or "I can hear you all the way down the hall", they just laugh and don't seem to realize that they're being reprimanded.

What should have been the last straw happened a couple of months ago.  My boss, who doesn't take nonsense from anyone, heard the noise and came to say "You're being too loud."  They laughed at her and said "Ha ha, who do you think you are?  (Big Boss's Name)?"  My boss said evenly "No, my name is (Name).  And you're being too loud.  Cut it out." 

Anyone else would've been mortified.  They made jokes about it later and referred to my boss "being in a bad mood" that day.  Oy.

siamesecat2965

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4032 on: July 11, 2013, 12:25:32 PM »
There are a couple of ladies who sit close to me who may be committing PD.  They're very nice, and very friendly, and very sociable - and VERY LOUD.  They tend to have long conversations with lots of top-volume comments and laughter, and they're pretty disruptive.   The PD part is that, whenever one of the supervisors says something like "Boy, you guys are loud" or "I can hear you all the way down the hall", they just laugh and don't seem to realize that they're being reprimanded.

What should have been the last straw happened a couple of months ago.  My boss, who doesn't take nonsense from anyone, heard the noise and came to say "You're being too loud."  They laughed at her and said "Ha ha, who do you think you are?  (Big Boss's Name)?"  My boss said evenly "No, my name is (Name).  And you're being too loud.  Cut it out." 

Anyone else would've been mortified.  They made jokes about it later and referred to my boss "being in a bad mood" that day.  Oy.

Well, it sounds like the supervisors don't take them too seriously, and rather than point blank telling them to keep it down, make PA comments, and hope they get the hint. Its like anything else; if there are no consquenses involved, the behavior will continue. and they aren't being reprimanded; so they keep doing it.

Shalamar

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4033 on: July 11, 2013, 12:29:56 PM »
The thing is, my boss DID reprimand them.  (At least, being told "You're too loud, cut it out" is a reprimand in my book!)

MyFamily

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4034 on: July 11, 2013, 03:47:11 PM »
But there aren't any consequences for them - no one is pulling them into a meeting and saying "you need to quiet down or else"; they aren't being written up; they aren't facing any consequences beyond supervisors saying "you are really loud".  Frankly, this problem is happening because the management isn't managing. 


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