Good Morning!

[Mahdoumi]

That was completely unnecessary, COmputerGeek.  I already said I understand why someone would not want to return a greeting.  What some don't seem to accept is that, regardless of the reasons for not returning a greeting and regardless of whether I think they are valid (I do, btw), it is rude not to return a pleasantry. 

The reference to the child was a general you, and I didn't make that distinction. Yes, I know you have clarified that part of the thread.

The OP wanted to know if people were being rude to her child by ignoring his "good morning."  The answer is, "Yes."  It doesn't matter what their reasons are for not acknowledging him.

[Twik]

Mahdoumi you seem unwilling to accept that just because you are comfortable doing something does not mean I or everyone else need to be.

I've already clarified that I usually, but not always, return the greeting of a child. It depends on the expression of their parent's face, whether I am paying attention and other factors as well. Since I've had parents shriek at me like a banshee for returning their child's greeting, I will definitely only respond if I can read the parent they're with.

Maintaining boundaries means, amoung many things, that I am definitely not going to return a greeting that I feel is the beginning of a long conversation I don't want to have.

Franky, I don't feel like I need to list every reason why I or anyone else may or may not return a greeting.

It's not the right of you or anyone else  to force some random stranger to acknowledge you. Frankly, ImHO, the rude person is the one that cannot understand this.

I'll certainly agree no one is obliged to get into a conversation with strangers. Merely that to, as a matter of policy, never return a greeting from a person you don't know makes the world feel a little colder.

Any time you think the other person is likely to be dangerous, or even just annoying, you use your own instincts to protect yourself.

[C0mputerGeek]

That was completely unnecessary, COmputerGeek.  I already said I understand why someone would not want to return a greeting.  What some don't seem to accept is that, regardless of the reasons for not returning a greeting and regardless of whether I think they are valid (I do, btw), it is rude not to return a pleasantry.

I'd say it was necessary due to your statement about growing up in NYC and living in Philly. You definitely made it seem as if everyone should be confortable responding to a greeting just because you are. Really, that has nothing to do with anything.

The OP wanted to know if people were being rude to her child by ignoring his "good morning."  The answer is, "Yes."  It doesn't matter what their reasons are for not acknowledging him.

This is what I am disagreeing with. I have said why as have others in this thread.

It looks like Miss Manners agrees with me. Here is another letter from her on the topic.

[Hushabye]

Hmmm, thanks for the citations, C0mputerGeek.

As a general rule, if I'm out and about walking somewhere without headphones/bluetooth/a friend, I will smile, nod and often respond "Good morning" to strangers.  However, there are other times when I'm walking to get where I'm going, lost in my own head, and it's nice to know that Miss Manners doesn't mind if I don't always respond.  I don't feel I should have to -- I don't know them, they don't know me, and I'm occupied, even if it's only with my thoughts.

[Mahdoumi]

Unless you are a female speaker who feels threatened by a certain demographic of men or a 12yo girl, I would have to say that Miss Manners has not yet agreed with you.  The letters are addressing safety, upon which we already agree.  

[C0mputerGeek]

Unless you are a female speaker who feels threatened by a certain demographic of men or a 12yo girl, I would have to say that Miss Manners has not yet agreed with you.  The letters are addressing safety, upon which we already agree.

Actually, no. In the first link, Miss Manners was quite clear that said that age and race were irrelevant to the scenario.

In the second link, she spoke of appropriate places to address strangers and make new acquaintances. The schoolyard was appropriate. On the street was not.

[Hushabye]

I read them completely differently: "Ignoring a person who is walking down the street with you, and who shows signs of beginning a conversation if encouraged, is not impolite.  It is merely a proper response to the rudeness of approaching a stranger -- you -- in the first place."  Nowhere does that refer to safety.

[Diane AKA Traska]

I grew up in Philly, and I live in Philly.  Not Lower Merion, not Ardmore, Philly.  The rowhomes and neighborhood factories part.

It absolutely can be a safety issue, and it absolutely can be a boundaries issue.

As I have previously stated, I have had parents glare at me (the Icy Glare, *and* the Mama Bear Glare) for acknowledging their child.  The way the environment of our society is these days, I would expect eventually people will be arrested for talking to a child they don't personally know.  In some places, merely being in the same park as children (while being childless yourself) is suspicious activity.

Those of you who believe that your Ipod or Blackberry or random thoughts are more important than a strange human being

My personal time is just that, mine.  Just as I am not required to answer a ringing telephone (a form of greeting) or a knock at the front door (a form of greeting), I am not required to answer a verbal greeting.  If I'm using an MP3 player and someone greets me, *if* I notice it (and that's a huge if), I may nod to them, but I'm not going to answer verbally... if only because I'd be afraid of going "GOOD MORNING TO YOU!"  Furthermore, if I am on a cell phone and someone greets me, I absolutely *will not* interrupt a conversation I am having to answer a random greeting.  Why?  Because that would be rude.

That said, I do answer greetings from strangers from time to time.  But there is no requirement to.  This is one of those "nice if you do it, but not rude if you don't" areas of etiquette.

[Mahdoumi]

Yes, Traska, we agree on the safety issues.  FWIW, I live in South Philly - Land of Beef and Beer, rowhomes, Mummers, piers, factories, and that infamous 5th Street corridor.  I'm not clueless enough to greet a group of teenagers just dismissed from South Philly HS with a smile and a hearty, "Good morning!" not to mention even be in the vicinty when school lets out.   

And it's very good practice for an adult who is childless in a playground not to engage with any children.

It's a sad fact of life that in certain situations, we cannot be kind to one another out of fear of what will happen to us or how a parent will interpret the kindness in order to protect their children.

But ordinarily and in general, it is rude not to acknowledge a pleasantry.  Yes, it's rude for someone to interrupt an obvious phone conversation, but don't all of here subscribe to the "two rudes don't make polite" theory?

[Mahdoumi]

Unless you are a female speaker who feels threatened by a certain demographic of men or a 12yo girl, I would have to say that Miss Manners has not yet agreed with you.  The letters are addressing safety, upon which we already agree.

Actually, no. In the first link, Miss Manners was quite clear that said that age and race were irrelevant to the scenario.  The scenario being that the woman felt threatened.

In the second link, she spoke of appropriate places to address strangers and make new acquaintances. The schoolyard was appropriate. On the street was not.  For a 12yo girl.

[C0mputerGeek]

Actually, no. In the first link, Miss Manners was quite clear that said that age and race were irrelevant to the scenario.  The scenario being that the woman felt threatened.

In the second link, she spoke of appropriate places to address strangers and make new acquaintances. The schoolyard was appropriate. On the street was not.  For a 12yo girl.

I disagree.

In the first letter, Miss Manners concludes that the person is not rude for refusing to get to know the strangers.

The letter writer in the second link is a 12-year-old girl. If it's not appropriate for her to respond to strangers on the street, then it's not appropriate for 6-year-old Perry to be greeting strangers either.

The point is that there is a proper time to greet strangers. The street is not one of them.

[Mahdoumi]

Miss Manners was validating the letter writer's nervousness about engaging with people with whom she feels uncomfortable.  I didn't read it as being a blanket statement about at-will engagement.  

The difference between the 12yo and our own Perry is that the 12yo girl is alone on the street.  There is no reasonable explanation for an adult stranger to approach a child who is alone on the street.  Perry is learning to communicate effectively with the world around him - a tough task for a child with autism - and he is with his mother.

No one is arguing that one must acknowledge a pleasantry on each and every occasion.  I'm saying that, while certain situations make it wise to be rude for safety's sake, it is still rude to not acknowledge a greeting. 

I'll look for something that gives guidance on general pleasantries, not specific safety situations, but we might be at the point to agree to disagree.  

[C0mputerGeek]

No one is arguing that one must acknowledge a pleasantry on each and every occasion.  I'm saying that, while certain situations make it wise to be rude for safety's sake, it is still rude to not acknowledge a greeting. 

...and this is the fundamental crux of the debate. You said it's rude. I say it's not and have offered supporting comments from Miss Manners to support my stance.

[Mahdoumi]

The supporting comments were exceptions to the rule for situations where it was safer to be rude than observe the courtesy.  We'd be hard pressed to find a Miss Manners' quote telling us it's perfectly okay to ignore a greeting because we just don't feel like acknowledging it that day.

[C0mputerGeek]

The supporting comments were exceptions to the rule for situations where it was safer to be rude than observe the courtesy.  We'd be hard pressed to find a Miss Manners' quote telling us it's perfectly okay to ignore a greeting because we just don't feel like acknowledging it that day.

I guess we won't ever agree with this because I don't feel that Miss Manners supports requiring people to say hello to every person that greets them.