Author Topic: The perfect response, if only I had used it!Update #62  (Read 14404 times)

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Stranger

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2010, 06:41:20 PM »
I agree that Jamie needs to learn that she will not always be allowed to get her own way. DS's party was not the place to teach her that lesson, though. Parties are fun, and teaching life lessons to other people's children wasn't high on my priority list  :)

We are in for a *fun* round two, though. DD's party is next weekend, and she invited 5 girls to her pamper party. Jamie is not one of the invited guests. Like with DS's party, we will hang balloons in the garden, and I have no doubt that Jamie will try to get herself invite again.When I have my chat with Jamie's mum, I am going to tell her that she will have to make sure that Jamie doesn't come over.

I have a good mind to not let Jamie into the house if she arrives during the party - it will spoil the atmosphere for DD. However, I can't let a crying child stand at my front door for three hours now, can I?

Kimblee

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2010, 06:49:31 PM »
I have no advice, but I'm cheering you on, Stranger.

Archer

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2010, 06:50:38 PM »
I have no advice, but I'm cheering you on, Stranger.

Me, too! This woman is taking the mick.

kherbert05

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2010, 06:53:38 PM »
I agree that Jamie needs to learn that she will not always be allowed to get her own way. DS's party was not the place to teach her that lesson, though. Parties are fun, and teaching life lessons to other people's children wasn't high on my priority list  :)

We are in for a *fun* round two, though. DD's party is next weekend, and she invited 5 girls to her pamper party. Jamie is not one of the invited guests. Like with DS's party, we will hang balloons in the garden, and I have no doubt that Jamie will try to get herself invite again.When I have my chat with Jamie's mum, I am going to tell her that she will have to make sure that Jamie doesn't come over.

I have a good mind to not let Jamie into the house if she arrives during the party - it will spoil the atmosphere for DD. However, I can't let a crying child stand at my front door for three hours now, can I?
DO NOT let her in the house for your DD's party. Get another adult involved who will take her home. If Mom does another disappearing act the other adult keeps the child outside (barring a thunderstorm or tornado), while you call Grandmother or Dad. If Mom doesn't give you those numbers or gives you false numbers call the cops and turn her over as abandoned. Otherwise you are going to have Jamie at every family gathering you have from now till they go away to university.

Don't Teach Them For Your Past. Teach Them For Their Future

shhh its me

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2010, 06:57:23 PM »
  If you manage to get additional contact number for the girls family ,I would use them if she is deposited for another party, if you feel it's safe you could leave her on the porch.  

OP I don't think you can teach this lesson, what Jamie did was normal even as adults haven't we all not been included in something and gone home to have a good cry.  What Jamie actually did was normal and healthy she didn't cry and refuse to leave when she was told it was time to go home , she didn't call OP and demand an explanation, she was sad and disappointed and went home and cried....Her mother was a nut. It's sad the girl actually behaved normally and her mother taught her to act like a spoiled brat not only that but her mother abandoned her when she was close to hysterics.
Of course OP should say no when she wants to but with a mother working so hard to teach bad behavoir I don't know that ther is much anyone can do.  That was part of the reason I suggested informing a different realtive maybe they can help correct the behavoirs the mother is teaching.


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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2010, 07:00:04 PM »

DO NOT let her in the house for your DD's party. Get another adult involved who will take her home. If Mom does another disappearing act the other adult keeps the child outside (barring a thunderstorm or tornado), while you call Grandmother or Dad. If Mom doesn't give you those numbers or gives you false numbers call the cops and turn her over as abandoned. Otherwise you are going to have Jamie at every family gathering you have from now till they go away to university.



That made me smile, thanks  :) I have a mental image of Jamie and adult cowering behind a pillar because I'm a big fat meanie and let them weather the storm outside :-)

And the bit about Jamie everywhere till varsity age made me *scared*. I will just have to be frank with her mum, and have a backup plan in case she tries again.

Giggity

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2010, 07:06:59 PM »
I have a good mind to not let Jamie into the house if she arrives during the party - it will spoil the atmosphere for DD. However, I can't let a crying child stand at my front door for three hours now, can I?

Apparently, you can't.
Words mean things.

Luci

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2010, 07:16:28 PM »
Mrs Merry, I really don't understand your post. I hope that I understand what you are trying to say and can respond to it appropriately.

I really think even at 5 years old, the little girl needs to start learning about life in the real world. She is young enough that her emotions are taking over, but old enough to learn. If the hostess of the party for the 8 year olds can do it, just let the 5 year old cry it out without any more help than the hostesses' 5 year old daughter can handle. I like to think that even the best mothers do that. I hate to put that kind of responsibility on the OP's daughter, so if she can't handle it (as most little girls at that age might want to do), just put the party crasher in a room and let her cry it out.
 
And yes, the kid needs that sometimes. I did point out the the child had no choice, but she still needs to sort of understand that she wasn't invited and should not get a gift bag. Even at that age, she can understand that her mother was mistaken and her tantums and tears won't get her anywhere. I think that in about three years from now, the child can actually learn that Mommy isn't always right without learning to be disrespectful.

OP - update please.

Shoo

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2010, 07:19:44 PM »
Thanks for all the advice!

Jamie's mum called at 9 o'clock and told Jamie to go home. The party ended at 4  :-\
There is a Dad in the picture, but he doesn't live with Jamie's mum and I've never seen him. Her boyfriend lives with her occasionally, though.

Jamie's grandmother lives nearby, and following your advice I am going to ask for her number today. I will also inform Jamie's mum that I *will* call her mother to fetch Jamie if she is left at my house without my consent again. You can believe that I was sorely tempted to call in reinforcements, but I didn't, for all the reasons mentioned.

We answered the phone because we live in a different country, and all our relatives were phoning DS to congratulate him on his birthday. If it wasn't for that, I would have turned off the phone. Not that it would have stopped Jamie's mum from sending her over anyway, imo.

Would it be polite enough if I say the following to Jamie's mum:

"Susan, I told that I wasn't able to look after Jamie and you abandoned her in front of my house anyway. It caused some disruption at the party, and I was left looking after your daughter for 5 hours after the party ended. I am going to need your mother's phone number so I can contact her to collect Jamie should this happen again. I am afraid that I would be forced to contact the authorities if I don't have contact details for family members."

I'm still spitting nails, I can hardly think of a polite way to tell her just how unacceptable her bahviour was. And I sill fell so unbearably sad for Jamie. She doesn't deserve to be treated like this by her mother!

What happened when Jamie's mom came to pick her up?  What did you say to her then?

shhh its me

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2010, 08:26:21 PM »
Lucinda7 
I'll try rephrasing....

Pretend your Jamie's mother. 

Your child come home crying that she was asked to leave because "it's time for the party" your child is sad etc....You console
your daughter "yes  they like you but you can't be at every party tut tut there there" or something like that .....that's normal  what happen was not normal, it's a 5 year old telling her mother she's sad it's not a tantrum it's not(may not be) a child crying to get their way. It wasn't naughty or spoiled for the child to cry at her own home away for OP and her family. All of the rudeness was ,with one small possible exception, was on the part of the mother. Your not dealing with a child acting spoiled your dealing with a spoiled mother.  Besides makig the other adults aware of the situation when faced with a mother with this sever a case of entitlement aren't allot of lessons OP can hope to acheive. 

The best OP can really do is to make other adults in the child life aware of the situation.

 

Luci

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2010, 10:21:24 PM »
Mrs. Merry, I think I said respect the child and not put the mother down to her. The child needs to face the real world with as much gentleness and understanding as we can muster. She sad and hurt, she needs to cry it out. Sometime soon someone will explain it to her. The jerky mom should have handled it and explained it to her, but didn't. The OP had her hands full with equally important issues and couldn't handle a crying 5 year old and tried to explain that to the child's mother.

Unfortunately, the child is going to have to learn to face a lot of these situations alone if her mother continues with this behavior. She'll either tough up or fail. We want to see her succeed and hope the "system" is ready for her if she fails. In my experience, most kids come out stronger, but it is still a mean way to live and learn.

I really wish we could all help the child, but we can't. How many children have I seen emotionally and educationally abandoned? I can't tell you. I hurt for all of them and am amazed at how resilient they can be. I don't want to take a chance on any of them, but we must realize that at that point on that day, the OP had many other children under her care that needed her attention, and the last child who should have been taken care of by her mother but wasn't became a nearly unbearable situation. I am still thinking the OP did the right thing, dealing as gently as she could and not calling the cops.

There is no way I can 'pretend to be the mother.' I can actually pretend to be the child better. The mom will never understand what is going on. Let's just deal with the child as gently as possible. I'm hurt, I'm crying, I don't understand and with the jerky mother I have, she can't explain it to me, so she just throws me back into the lion's den. My friend's mom is too busy to comfort me right now . . I guess that's life and I had better learn to deal with it. even if I'm only 5..
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 09:21:11 AM by Lucinda7 »

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2010, 11:25:33 PM »
There is no way I can 'pretend to be the mother.' I can actually pretend to be the child better. The mom will never understand what is going on. Let's just deal with the child as gently as possible. I'm hurt, I'm crying, I don't understand and with the jerky mother I have, she can't explain it to me, so she just throws me back into the lion's den. My friend's mom is too busy to comfort me right now . . I guess that's life and I had better learn to deal with it. even if I'm only 5..

This is exactly why I didn't keep Jamie away from the party when she was essentially abandoned here. I just can't be mean to *her*, and she will see it as me being mean.

I feel that Jamie is being neglected, but not abused. She is a very sweet child, and her mum should have explained to her that life doesn't end when you have not been invited to party, but she didn't. We all have a soft spot for Jamie, she flourishes when you give her some attention - I think she doesn't get much at home.

Jamie's mum didn't fetch her at 9. She called and told Jamie to come home. I let DS walk her home to see that she got there safe, there was no way I could face the mother without being extremely rude last night. I needed time to calm down and think of my options. I will speak to the mother as soon as I see her again, they are not home at the moment.

POF

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2010, 08:47:39 AM »
Wow - I just can not imagine. 

How often does Jamie play at your house ? is it reciprocated ?  My sense is that she is at your house and Mom is very comfortable with that. I would not let Jamie play for 2 weeks. I wouldn't say anything - but every time she came over we would be unavailable.

Hopefully this will let Jamie and Mom get out of the habit that she can be at your house whenever she wants.  I did this to some extent with a really obnoxious neighbor kid. Every time he came by ... we were leaving, boys doing homework, just NOT available.

I would also tell the mother that if she ever leaves the child on your doorstep you will call the police. I would not call her mother. That just continues to put you in the "care" loop. Frankly - I'd follow it up with a certified letter. What if Jamie did not come into your house - stood outself and was picked up by someone else or hit by a car - I bet her mother would hold you responsible. I would want to document that she is NEVER to leave her at your house and that she is only welcome when invited.

Yeo - it's a tough lesson for her .... but she is not essentially your responsibility.

 


rhirhi

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2010, 08:03:50 PM »
There is one thing that is being assumed and might not have been true- that Jamie was upset (at first).

It is possible that her mother had planned on leaving the whole time (with or without informing OP) and when Jamie came home, questioned her and made her feel bad when the child had no problem with it at all.

OP, as far as the party goes- did your DD participate (assuming she was there)? If so, you could have sent the two girls to play either indoors or outdoors (where ever the party was not) and given your DD a treat later for missing out.

MrsO

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Re: The perfect response, if only I had used it!
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2010, 11:18:10 PM »
However, I can't let a crying child stand at my front door for three hours now, can I?
Yes, you can. You tell Jamie's mother that if she turns up during the party, she WILL be turned away, as she IS NOT invited. Tell her in no uncertain terms that if there isn't a parent home, the child will be taken to her grandmothers, or, as a last resort, the authorities will be called and informed of an abandoned child.

I'm aghast at the gall of this woman!!  :o