Author Topic: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement  (Read 6608 times)

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M-theory

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2010, 12:23:54 AM »
I don't believe this really happened. As someone else said, plenty of people don't keep kosher, and even if they do, kashrut just isn't an issue that incites vigilante behaviour.

Charming bit of anti-Semitism, just in time for Passover, too.

Kaylee

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2010, 12:41:26 AM »

So, she obviously believes it to be real. Did someone sneak something by her? Maybe. But she believes it's real.

I saw her response, and my considered opinion is that she should rethink the reality of this submission unless she gets reliable documentation from the original poster.  For all the reasons that have already been discussed, as well as M.'s point above, this story just does not ring true.  (For the record:  I am Jewish by heritage, and the next incident of kashrut-bashing I hear will be the first in 41 years on this planet.  A few months ago, we had an outbreak of uncomprehension when a bunch of us were amused at the inclusion of a cheeseburger on the menu of a bar mitzvah that was being catered on Hell's Kitchen, for goodness' sakes.)  Mean teenage girls, sure, of whatever ilk.  But as we've been saying, it's the insertion of the completely illogical supposed behavior on the part of the camp director that puts this into the 'shenanigans' camp for most of us.

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2010, 01:21:31 AM »
I don't believe this really happened. As someone else said, plenty of people don't keep kosher, and even if they do, kashrut just isn't an issue that incites vigilante behaviour.

Charming bit of anti-Semitism, just in time for Passover, too.

For bullies, *anything* will incite their behaviour. They don't think like the rest of is.

This is about bullying, not religion. Crying anti-semitism is over the top.

M-theory

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2010, 01:24:39 AM »
I don't believe this really happened. As someone else said, plenty of people don't keep kosher, and even if they do, kashrut just isn't an issue that incites vigilante behaviour.

Charming bit of anti-Semitism, just in time for Passover, too.

For bullies, *anything* will incite their behaviour. They don't think like the rest of is.

This is about bullying, not religion. Crying anti-semitism is over the top.

I can see bullying at a Jewish, or any other, camp, starting over a lot of things, but kashrut isn't one of them. This story is a really obvious fabrication, and the completely unabashed flouting of Godwin's Law + the use of what the outside observer perceives as a Jewish more everyone will recognize make it anti-Semitic.

Blithe

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2010, 02:04:17 AM »
Personally, I think that it is plausible.  Teenagers' brains don't work the same way as adult brains and I kind of hope that their is more to this story than just the cheeseburger and that the bullies didn't intend for things to get that far out of hand, but I believe that this sort of situation could happen.  And I would believe that it could happen if you changed details to make it fit my own religion. 

As far as why the director would continue to harass the mother even if she isn't currently planning to sue, I can think of a few problems that would be created by this situation beyond the possibility of a lawsuit.  First of all, I'm not a parent yet, but I think that I would definitely reconsider sending a child to a camp where the sort of bullying happened and where the counselors heard noise from a tent or cabin, wasn't certain if it was laughing or screaming and decide not to check up on it?  For that matter, I can think of some situations that might set young teenagers into bouts of loud laughter that I would want stopped as well.  Secondly, I would imagine that an insurance adjuster who heard about this sort of incident would be reconsidering the camp's premiums.  Also, I know that there are certain types of insurance where you are supposed to report incidents that might result in a claim immediately so that the insurance company can instruct you in how to proceed.  If that was the case I could see a director panicking before or after doing that and engaging in the type of behavior described here.  In situations like this it is much easier to blame the victim than to admit that something this bad could happen.

In both the first and second situation, it would be much better (for the director and/or owners) if the director could get the victim's family to admit that she over-reacted to something and that it didn't really happen like that and an impatient, immature, or inexperienced camp director might react inappropriately to a circumstance that he or she probably never imagined would happen as his or her camp.

MariaE

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2010, 02:54:59 AM »
I don't believe this really happened. As someone else said, plenty of people don't keep kosher, and even if they do, kashrut just isn't an issue that incites vigilante behaviour.

Charming bit of anti-Semitism, just in time for Passover, too.

For bullies, *anything* will incite their behaviour. They don't think like the rest of is.

This is about bullying, not religion. Crying anti-semitism is over the top.

I can see bullying at a Jewish, or any other, camp, starting over a lot of things, but kashrut isn't one of them. This story is a really obvious fabrication, and the completely unabashed flouting of Godwin's Law + the use of what the outside observer perceives as a Jewish more everyone will recognize make it anti-Semitic.

Bullying can start over anything. I was bullied for being a Christian at a Christian private school!! If that can happen, then I certainly believe that bullying can start over kashrut as well.
 
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M-theory

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2010, 03:13:14 AM »
Honestly, if you were well-acquainted with Judaism, the complete improbability of this scenario would likely be obvious to you too. I can see how it might be too much to expect people who haven't been exposed to the day-to-day travails to necessarily understand, but I maintain shenanigans.

MariaE

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2010, 03:26:29 AM »
Honestly, if you were well-acquainted with Judaism, the complete improbability of this scenario would likely be obvious to you too. I can see how it might be too much to expect people who haven't been exposed to the day-to-day travails to necessarily understand, but I maintain shenanigans.
It's rather an interesting assumtion to say that I'm not well-acquainted with Judaism. And even if I weren't, I hope you're not saying that the only reason I disagree with you is because I don't know better.

I maintain shenanigans as well, but because it sounds exaggerated, not because I don't believe bullying can't start over anything. If it hadn't happened to me personally, I would also have found it completely improbably to be bullied for being a Christian at a Christian school (not bullied for how I was a Christian, but bullied for that I was a Christian - by other Christians!)

The point is - and I think this is were we may be taking past each other - that bullying can happen over anything, because the bullies would have bullied anyway! The belief/opinion/taste is not the reason for the bullying, but merely the excuse for the bullying. If I hadn't been a Christian, they'd probably have bullied me because of that! If the girl in the post hadn't said she liked cheeseburgers, they'd probably have found some other reason to jump her. Bullies bully - there need be no rhyme or reason to it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 03:34:44 AM by MariaE »
 
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M-theory

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2010, 04:25:53 AM »
Honestly, if you were well-acquainted with Judaism, the complete improbability of this scenario would likely be obvious to you too. I can see how it might be too much to expect people who haven't been exposed to the day-to-day travails to necessarily understand, but I maintain shenanigans.
It's rather an interesting assumtion to say that I'm not well-acquainted with Judaism. And even if I weren't, I hope you're not saying that the only reason I disagree with you is because I don't know better.

I maintain shenanigans as well, but because it sounds exaggerated, not because I don't believe bullying can't start over anything. If it hadn't happened to me personally, I would also have found it completely improbably to be bullied for being a Christian at a Christian school (not bullied for how I was a Christian, but bullied for that I was a Christian - by other Christians!)

The point is - and I think this is were we may be taking past each other - that bullying can happen over anything, because the bullies would have bullied anyway! The belief/opinion/taste is not the reason for the bullying, but merely the excuse for the bullying. If I hadn't been a Christian, they'd probably have bullied me because of that! If the girl in the post hadn't said she liked cheeseburgers, they'd probably have found some other reason to jump her. Bullies bully - there need be no rhyme or reason to it.

I think this is something where I'm going to come across badly no matter how I try to frame it, so I'm going to agree that we're talking past each other here and settle for the fact that we both think this story is bilge. :)

MariaE

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2010, 05:18:52 AM »
Thanks M. I apologise for overreacting.
 
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M-theory

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Re: From E-Hell blog: Cheeseburger Incitement
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2010, 05:20:44 AM »
Thanks M. I apologise for overreacting.

I don't think you overreacted. I'm sorry I came across as condescending!