But you HATE children!

[Venus193]

People who get on your case for not liking children really don't understand that there are many parents out there, past and present, who don't like children.  A fair percentage of them don't even like their own children. 

One huge problem in all this is that until recent times it was never acceptable to not want or to not like children.  Since birth control made it possible to actual control how many children one would have or not have, we can be upfront about this.

However, sometimes you have to consider the individual source.  My best friend was ambivalent about children during her early adult years and started getting interested in them when she was in her 30s.  She had a miscarriage at the age of 38 and never became pregnant again.  She becomes quite irrational on the subject sometimes by accusing me of not understanding why anyone would want children at all.  This is so not the case.

Give moi a break.

[Clara Bow]

Venus, I think it all comes down to the fact that we're dealing with people here. And people are very irrational creatures....

[Venus193]

Auntie, this is very true.

[supernova]

I still don't understand what is so terrible about not liking/hating children. I have a son, and I love him very much, but I don't generally like other people's kids unless they are very well behaved. I mean, I hate dogs. Does that make me evil? There's nothing wrong with not liking something, there is something wrong with those who make you feel like crap because of it.
Now the OP has no problem with kids, and that's fine. But I do not have a problem with those who don't like kids period, even if that extends to my kid. Their loss...and their right to their opinion....

I think the media has a lot to do with that.  Look at films and television and even books and magazines.  Children are often portrayed as little angels who can fix the whole world just by existing (see any Shirley Temple or Margaret O'Brien film) and you can always tell who the "bad guy" is because he/she doesn't like children.  (Who were we rooting for in "Sound of Music" --the Baroness who wanted to put the kids in boarding school, or Julie Andrews who loved kids?  Same with Parent Trap--we were rooting against the evil stepmother candidate who wanted to board the daughter, NOT the mother who'd lied to them for 12 years.)  Tabloid and magazine headlines are even more blatant:  "Jen deserved to lose Brad to a woman who wanted his babies."

Somehow in our culture, the terms "childfree," "childhater" and "evil" have become semantically equivalent.  This annoys me, as I'm childfree but I love my friends' kids.  But there's not much I can do about it, unfortunately. 

     - saphie

[fklwmn]

I still don't understand what is so terrible about not liking/hating children. I have a son, and I love him very much, but I don't generally like other people's kids unless they are very well behaved. I mean, I hate dogs. Does that make me evil? There's nothing wrong with not liking something, there is something wrong with those who make you feel like crap because of it.
Now the OP has no problem with kids, and that's fine. But I do not have a problem with those who don't like kids period, even if that extends to my kid. Their loss...and their right to their opinion....

I think the media has a lot to do with that.  Look at films and television and even books and magazines.  Children are often portrayed as little angels who can fix the whole world just by existing (see any Shirley Temple or Margaret O'Brien film) and you can always tell who the "bad guy" is because he/she doesn't like children.  (Who were we rooting for in "Sound of Music" --the Baroness who wanted to put the kids in boarding school, or Julie Andrews who loved kids?  Same with Parent Trap--we were rooting against the evil stepmother candidate who wanted to board the daughter, NOT the mother who'd lied to them for 12 years.) 

Well, in the cases of these movies... I always felt the reasons these women were the 'bad' guys is b/c if you don't want to have kids, that's great! but you don't then decide to marry a man who has kids - ESPECIALLY if some or all of those kids live there full time - with some secret plan to send them away once you are ensconced as the wife. THAT was what made them 'evil', the secretive manipulation... not the simple fact that they didn't want kids.

[Slartibartfast]

I recently had a chance to really sit down and talk with a new co-worker who is turning into a great friend - I came over to her house to help her move some furniture the weekend her husband was out of town, and we talked about all kinds of things for several hours.

In the course of conversation, she mentioned the "surgery" she had undergone last year was to get her tubes tied, since she and her husband didn't want kids and had had two pregnancy scares.  (She had mentioned the surgery in vague terms when we first met, but this was the first time we really had an in-depth conversation.)  I replied with something about how kids aren't for everyone and it must be nice to get [worry about pregnancy] off her mind.

Now, DH and I are planning to have children in the next few years, and she knows this.  There are also two couples in our mutual social circle who are pregnant, a few who already have kids, and another couple who have infertility issues who desperately want to become pregnant.  Apparently kids must be a big topic of conversation most of the time, because she just gave me a stunned look and said "But you want to have kids!"  Now, thanks to EHell, I had a pretty good idea how to talk to someone who was childfree by choice, and she was just shocked.  "You wouldn't believe how many people have looked down on me for this [the surgery]."

That makes me sad - yes, I do want children, and I wouldn't have made her choice, but why does ANYONE think they have the right to tell her she should or shouldn't produce offspring?

[Katharine]

DH and I are childfree and plan on staying that way. A good friend of mine was pregnant and one day mentioned she didn't like to talking to me about it. She said it was because I didn't want children. I explained to her that it is my choice and I am happy that she is so excited about being a parent and she should have no reason to feel shy about talking to me about it. 


I think if I wanted to have kids and couldn't talking about it might be hard but I have no issue with other people having kids. I wish people understood that.

I'm sorry for your friend. I can't believe how hard it must be to have to give birth knowing that the baby isn't alive. I think losing a child is one of the worst pains someone could have.

[VorFemme]

Well, in the cases of these movies... I always felt the reasons these women were the 'bad' guys is b/c if you don't want to have kids, that's great! but you don't then decide to marry a man who has kids - ESPECIALLY if some or all of those kids live there full time - with some secret plan to send them away once you are ensconced as the wife. THAT was what made them 'evil', the secretive manipulation... not the simple fact that they didn't want kids.

I agree - two faced people are written to be seen as evil - whether it is about kids, finances, or any other issues..............and not just in the movies.

[Venus193]

"You wouldn't believe how many people have looked down on me for this [the surgery]."

That makes me sad - yes, I do want children, and I wouldn't have made her choice, but why does ANYONE think they have the right to tell her she should or shouldn't produce offspring?

Warning:  Major rant ahead.

Because they can't stand the idea that many childfree people are happy, free, and lead sophisticated lives that don't have to change because they had a baby.  Many can't separate the child from the adult he or she will become.  Others can't understand that some people know themselves well enough to know that they would never be good parents and some that do think that this makes them bad people.

Personally, I have more respect for the person who abstains from parenthood than the one who goes ahead with it to meet someone else's expectations without considering whether or not it's right for them or the child.

Then you get the religious fanatics who don't realize that the "encrease and multiply" directive is rather foolish in an overpopulated world.

[sammycat]

Personally, I have more respect for the person who abstains from parenthood than the one who goes ahead with it to meet someone else's expectations without considering whether or not it's right for them or the child

Very well put.  Some people have children and definitely shouldn't (abuse of the child etc).  I wanted nothing more than to have children and now have 2.  (Wanted more but fertility issues put an end to that).  I know quite a few childless couples, and only 2 have stated that that their is their choice, none of the other couples have ever said anything so I don't know whether it's by choice or circumstance.  Either way it's not my business.  The husband of one couple had an awful childhood and has said he doesn't want to repeat his parents' mistakes, hence their childless state.  I respect their choice and they respect our choice to have children.

Just because someone makes a choice that's different to yours (general yours) doesn't make it wrong or bad, nor does it mean they can't show sympathy when something tragic happens, as in the case of the OP's co-worker losing her child.  I like dogs ok but am not what you call a dog lover, but that doesn't mean I didn't get upset and/or sympathise when my friend's dog died.

I think if there was a lot more tolerance of other people's choices regardless of whether (general) you likes or approves of them the world would be a better place.

[Venus193]

Sammycat, I often think that that day will never come.

[sammycat]

Venus, sadly I have to agree.

[Scritzy]

Yay, Venus! You said it well. I am so happy to be past the age when people rant on me for not wanting children.

I knew when I was 11 years old that I wasn't did not want to be a mother. Even at that age, whining or crying kids made me nervous. Obnoxious kids made me want to put them in time-out. I have had so many people say, "Come on, you didn't know what you were thinking. You were just a kid yourself! You'd be a great mother, Scritzy, because kids like you!" Yeah, they like me, and sometimes I like them. But I wouldn't want to be their mama. (I make a very good aunty, though.)

I think I've told the story of the Sunday-school teacher I had (two churches ago) who claimed that it was the duty of every Christian woman who was married to have children. I called him on that, big time, saying that there are people in this world who would make terrible parents (yes, even Christians, counting myself among them). He couldn't even imagine such a thing!

Contrast that to Tim. When we were discussing families I told him I had known since age 11 that I didn't want children. My blessed music minister looked at me and said, "If you knew that so positively at that early age, then it must have come straight down from God."

[Venus193]

Scritzy, he sounds like a very wise man.

[Scritzy]

He is indeed.

He has three kids of his own, by the way, and they are pretty good kids.