Author Topic: Assumptions that are actually true  (Read 13917 times)

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hyzenthlay

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2010, 09:22:30 AM »
Before the 1960s, there was pretty much no choice but to have as many kids as nature would gift you, so I don't understand stereotyping people of earlier generations. If you assume someone that right now has 17 kids is extremely religious, that would be a somewhat based on reality assumption, but in the past they were just very fertile.

Condoms are hundreds if not thousands of years old and there are other ways of preventing children. Not as good as what we have now but BC is not a 20th century invention.

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The rhythm method is far from perfect, but it could certainly reduce 17 kids down to a number that is far more reasonable to raise in a healthy manner that doesn't burn out the mother. And it's been around a looooong time, it just was to obscene to be discussed in many times and places.

Jan74

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2010, 09:48:27 AM »
Before the 1960s, there was pretty much no choice but to have as many kids as nature would gift you, so I don't understand stereotyping people of earlier generations. If you assume someone that right now has 17 kids is extremely religious, that would be a somewhat based on reality assumption, but in the past they were just very fertile.

Condoms are hundreds if not thousands of years old and there are other ways of preventing children. Not as good as what we have now but BC is not a 20th century invention.

And people are still having issues getting their long term SOs to want to use them right now (see increase of AIDS among married women). I can't imagine a married woman, in the 1930s or 1940s, getting her husband to use a condom for birth control. It was widely thought of that it was something one would use with a particularly unsafe looking prostitute, and if men complain that the very comfortable modern and inexpensive ones are still bad, imagine a sheepskin one in that time. Not to mention I doubt people would even want to buy that from their pharmacist at the time.

Availability is not the same as widespread use, especially not when the consequence of not using it - pregnancy - mostly affected the woman.

Twik

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2010, 08:06:36 AM »
Before the 1960s, there was pretty much no choice but to have as many kids as nature would gift you, so I don't understand stereotyping people of earlier generations. If you assume someone that right now has 17 kids is extremely religious, that would be a somewhat based on reality assumption, but in the past they were just very fertile.

Condoms are hundreds if not thousands of years old and there are other ways of preventing children. Not as good as what we have now but BC is not a 20th century invention.

POD
The rhythm method is far from perfect, but it could certainly reduce 17 kids down to a number that is far more reasonable to raise in a healthy manner that doesn't burn out the mother. And it's been around a looooong time, it just was to obscene to be discussed in many times and places.

Remember, thought, before TV, there weren't too many ways to entertain yourself in the evenings.  >:D
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mechtilde

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2010, 11:34:28 AM »
Before the 1960s, there was pretty much no choice but to have as many kids as nature would gift you, so I don't understand stereotyping people of earlier generations. If you assume someone that right now has 17 kids is extremely religious, that would be a somewhat based on reality assumption, but in the past they were just very fertile.

Condoms are hundreds if not thousands of years old and there are other ways of preventing children. Not as good as what we have now but BC is not a 20th century invention.

In order to be able to use them though, you need to know what they are and be able to get them. Contraception was fairly well available in the UK, thanks in no small parts to Marie S.topes, but other countries were different. It was considered pretty shocking when Beate U.hse started selling information booklets on natural BC in Germany in the late forties, and it wasn't until later she was able to start selling condoms. There were similar problems in other countries.
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channa17

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2011, 08:49:40 AM »
Well, stereotypes are not necessarily a bad thing.  Generalizations exist for a reason - because in general, they are true. ;) 

The only problem with stereotypes or generalizations is when people hold on to them in the face of additional/new/contrary information. 

I'd say there's a huge problem with stereotypes that are held as judgments about an individual - now, some stereotypes about groups are in fact true, or somewhat true, or true to a large but not complete extent, so I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to have some general idea about another group of people:  if and only if you can actually back that belief up with observation and if and only if you accept that this may be generally true of the group, but that it cannot be applied to any given individual and finally if and only if the stereotype is not actively racist/offensive (so "1st and 2nd generation immigrated 'Old World' families tend to have intergenerational culture clashes" is basically OK, but "_______ people smell / are stingy / are stupid is REALLY NOT FINE).

The second you apply that stereotype to an individual just because (s)he's a part of a group and not based on an individual assessment of the person...that's where assumptions and stereotypes fail miserably. 

So it's OK to think "1st and 2nd generation immigrated 'Old World' families tend to have intergenerational culture clashes" is fine, but "You are the children of Old World parents who immigrated so you MUST have intergenerational culture clashes" is really, deeply NOT OK.

channa17

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2011, 08:58:15 AM »
As an American living abroad, I get a lot of assumptions lobbed my way.  They are mostly not true (I don't own a gun, I don't hate Muslims, I do speak more than one language - in fact I speak 2 foreign languages well and another with basic proficiency, and one of those languages is really hard, I am not conservative, I am not religious, I do follow world news, I don't have a dog, and I've never had more than one "boyfriend" at a time, and in total have not had that many) so I'm fine with saying so.  I love broadening minds everywhere about what real Americans are like!

As a liberal feminist, I get even more assumptions lobbed at me - and some are partly true (I do lean a bit towards Socialism, for instance, and I am pro gay marriage and pro choice) and some are false (I don't hate men, and I don't hate America!).  Not that I want to discuss politics - I don't!  Just pointing out that people assume things about all sorts of groups, even groups who share political beliefs.

As someone who is ethnically Armenian whose family came over during the 1915 genocide/diaspora, I get even more assumptions - "So, your family must hate the Turks, huh?"

Well, yes.  In fact they do.  Especially my grandfather.  *I* however do not hate Turks.  I hate what was done to my family, but Turks alive today didn't do it.  (It'd be nice if they'd recognize that it happened but you can't blame an individual Turk for that, or for being mis-educated about it).

Jan74

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2011, 09:02:26 AM »
As an American living abroad, I get a lot of assumptions lobbed my way.  They are mostly not true (I don't own a gun, I don't hate Muslims, I do speak more than one language - in fact I speak 2 foreign languages well and another with basic proficiency, and one of those languages is really hard, I am not conservative, I am not religious, I do follow world news, I don't have a dog, and I've never had more than one "boyfriend" at a time, and in total have not had that many) so I'm fine with saying so.  I love broadening minds everywhere about what real Americans are like!

Well, but that is because that kind of American would never live abroad, duh.  ;D

I'm just kidding! But I do think someone who is the stereotype people ask you about would be unlikely to leave their home country.

channa17

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2011, 09:08:09 AM »
Cue all the inbreeding jokes you can shake a stick at in  ... 1 ... 2 ... 3! To add to that, he eventually started bragging about how his own great grandparents were uncle and niece, too!

"Uncle marries niece" is a really quite common thing in some parts of southern India, as well.  Not so common anymore, but it does happen.  It used to be not only normal, but expected.

Jan74

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2011, 11:30:35 AM »
Cue all the inbreeding jokes you can shake a stick at in  ... 1 ... 2 ... 3! To add to that, he eventually started bragging about how his own great grandparents were uncle and niece, too!

"Uncle marries niece" is a really quite common thing in some parts of southern India, as well.  Not so common anymore, but it does happen.  It used to be not only normal, but expected.

It is illegal here, but I know a guy who did it by proving with a blood test that they weren't related - his dad was married to his wife's grandmother, and adopted her daughter from an earlier relationship. Then this woman died, and his dad married his mother, and had him. And to make it grosser, they were raised in the same house, as the adopted daughter/bride's mom never left the home.

I found them being together so repulsive, that I have to confess I was relieved when they were divorced, even though that is a terrible thing to say.

Kendo_Bunny

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2011, 10:40:44 PM »
As an American living abroad, I get a lot of assumptions lobbed my way.  They are mostly not true (I don't own a gun, I don't hate Muslims, I do speak more than one language - in fact I speak 2 foreign languages well and another with basic proficiency, and one of those languages is really hard, I am not conservative, I am not religious, I do follow world news, I don't have a dog, and I've never had more than one "boyfriend" at a time, and in total have not had that many) so I'm fine with saying so.  I love broadening minds everywhere about what real Americans are like!

Well, but that is because that kind of American would never live abroad, duh.  ;D

I'm just kidding! But I do think someone who is the stereotype people ask you about would be unlikely to leave their home country.

As a gun-owning, religious, dog-loving conservative who only speaks English proficiently, that is a bit of an interesting assumption on your part too. Then again, I do follow world news, and only having mastered one language is not for lack of trying.

Jan74

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2011, 05:29:33 AM »
As an American living abroad, I get a lot of assumptions lobbed my way.  They are mostly not true (I don't own a gun, I don't hate Muslims, I do speak more than one language - in fact I speak 2 foreign languages well and another with basic proficiency, and one of those languages is really hard, I am not conservative, I am not religious, I do follow world news, I don't have a dog, and I've never had more than one "boyfriend" at a time, and in total have not had that many) so I'm fine with saying so.  I love broadening minds everywhere about what real Americans are like!

Well, but that is because that kind of American would never live abroad, duh.  ;D

I'm just kidding! But I do think someone who is the stereotype people ask you about would be unlikely to leave their home country.

As a gun-owning, religious, dog-loving conservative who only speaks English proficiently, that is a bit of an interesting assumption on your part too. Then again, I do follow world news, and only having mastered one language is not for lack of trying.

I was not actually correlating religion, conservatism, or dog owning with not wanting to live abroad, but "following world news" and "speaking a foreign language". Which I believe is an assumption that is actually true - a person who shows little interest in other countries and cultures, unless they are transferred forcibly by their work to live abroad, is unlikely to say "You know what, I feel like moving to a country I know nothing about the political situation of, can't speak the language of, and don't intend on learning the language of".

Shea

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2011, 02:52:57 PM »
I'm of Scottish and Jewish heritage, and I've definitely been known to make jokes about my frugality being encoded into my DNA (the stereotype being that Scots and Jews are noted for frugality).


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Seraphia

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2011, 03:05:52 PM »
I'm something like 1/3 Finnish, but I'm afraid I'll never like seafood as much as I'm supposed to. On the other hand, I do read a lot, and Finns have (I believe) the highest literacy rate in the world, as well as most library books checked out per person.

I always look for resemblances in any Finns I see on TV - some of them definitely have the same eye crinkles and cheekbones as I do. :D
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boxy

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2011, 05:11:31 PM »
I'm an American mutt and have no clue what stereotypes could be said about me.

Xallanthia

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Re: Assumptions that are actually true
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2011, 01:28:36 PM »
I'm an American mutt and have no clue what stereotypes could be said about me.

Why that's easy!  All the American ones! :P