Author Topic: Rude to sleep in car?  (Read 17794 times)

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Sharnita

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #150 on: August 05, 2010, 11:15:55 AM »
It was the tapping of the breaks that I think was unsafe and rude to the other drivers on the road. If it had stayed verbal, or he was able to tap her on the shoulder, then it would have been fine. But to jostle the whole car and everyone in it, and send confusing signals to all the drivers around him? Possibly risk being rear ended (depending on the traffic)? That seems both rude and irresponsible to me. If he couldn't do it with his voice alone, and he couldn't reach her to tap her on the shoulder, he could ask one of the other passengers to tap her or speak to her, or he could have stopped the car completely. But it's not safe or reasonable to play games with a large, heavy, moving vehicle on a public motorway with other drivers around.

I agree; that's quite an insight into his mentality. 

It might make me sick to my stomach as I am prone to motion sickness - one reason I tend to sleep in the car in the first place.

Giggity

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #151 on: August 05, 2010, 11:33:08 AM »
I do not think anyone here would stick a fork in their aunt to wake up.

Wayell, some of my extended family is a little questionable ...   ;D
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PeasNCues

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #152 on: August 05, 2010, 11:36:11 AM »
I do not think anyone here would stick a fork in their aunt to wake up.

Wayell, some of my extended family is a little questionable ...   ;D

LOL! Well, I guess I will amend my statement to say, "I don't think anyone here, except maybe Juana la Loca, would stick a fork in their aunt to wake her up." ;)
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

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noexitwounds

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #153 on: August 05, 2010, 11:38:46 AM »
Honestly, I think that if a driver has genuine objections to people sleeping in the car, especially if this poses a safety hazard to that driver and especially if it's not okay if just one person stays awake, it is really really important for that driver to always make that known when offering a ride to anyone. That way people who know they are likely to fall asleep can decline And arrangements can be made regarding if someone who usually doesn't fall asleep does, how will they be woken up? Because falling asleep in a car can happen even to someone it's never happened to before, as we know. Other passengers can be alert to if anyone is falling asleep and can take care of it so the driver can focus on the road.
[...]

So, I guess my point is, if the driver in the OP really had a problem with sleeping passengers there was a better way he could have handled it. And if it was just a "I can't sleep so you can't either" thing, something that didn't really pose a hazard and he could have easily lived with, though his circumstances weren't exactly what he would have wanted, he was childish and petty to distract himself from the road just to wake her up.

In this situation the OP *did* know the driver's position on it, at least after the first trip, and yet she didn't decline. The driver wasn't unclear about his expectations, given the first drive in which the OP fell asleep, and the OP wasn't unaware she'd fall asleep, given the first drive in which she did fall asleep.

So, the person who engineered this situation of the driver being distracted isn't the driver -- it's the OP. Why should the driver have to live with something, even if it didn't pose a hazard, in his own car when he was driving the OP as a favor and she had the option of driving herself? It seems to me that the OP is the one being childish and petty by refusing to abide by the driver's rules for his own car or make alternate arrangements for herself. And she was choosing to do this when she *knew* it distracted the driver. it was his car getting wear-and-tear, his gas, his generosity, and I really don't see how someone can argue it's anything but completely reasonable for him to expect that, in exchange for this generosity, people abide by his car rules, whether it's that he gets to control the radio station, that no one may eat in the car, or that no one can sleep in the car.
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high dudgeon

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #154 on: August 05, 2010, 12:16:42 PM »
If a driver taps the brakes when there is no road-relevant reason to do so, I suppose it might or might not cause an accident. It might even if it was a light tap, because brake-tapping is used as a communication device with other drivers, who might misinterpret your intentions and act accordingly and set off a chain reaction.

This was exactly what I was trying to say, and thank you for putting it so clearly! The drivers around you have no idea what's going on inside your car, all they know is that your brake lights flashed and they don't understand why and don't understand what you're trying to signal to them. It's a whole different matter if you're tapping your brakes in order to signal to the other drivers, or just because the driving conditions required you to step on the brakes for a second. I also don't think it has to be a violent tap in order to jostle the passengers or wake up a dozing person. Maybe it depends on the specific car and how jerky the brakes are?

I do think there are people who have the ability to nudge someone in the back seat without being distracted, taking their eyes off the road, or fumbling around. My mother was excellent at that, during my childhood! But if the sleeping is distracting, and he can't take care of it without confusing the other drivers or distracting himself, then I think it's time to pull over and settle this when the vehicle is stationary.

I agree that the first time OP chose to ride with her friend, there was some bad communication, he didn't think anyone would sleep in the car and she didn't realize it would bother him at all. But after that, I think it's a different situation than accepting the ride knowing that the sleeping is a problem, and then making plans in advance to manipulate him into getting things your way. Not everyone, even the closest of friends are going to be compatible for every activity and I don't think it makes them bad people, just bad road trip buddies.


Also, it depends on the aunt! Aunt June who is sweet as can be, absolutely not. Aunt Heloise who has been venting for hours about offensive fringe political and religious views, I might be tempted.  >:D

DangerMouth

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #155 on: August 05, 2010, 12:27:30 PM »
Honestly, I think that if a driver has genuine objections to people sleeping in the car, especially if this poses a safety hazard to that driver and especially if it's not okay if just one person stays awake, it is really really important for that driver to always make that known when offering a ride to anyone. That way people who know they are likely to fall asleep can decline And arrangements can be made regarding if someone who usually doesn't fall asleep does, how will they be woken up? Because falling asleep in a car can happen even to someone it's never happened to before, as we know. Other passengers can be alert to if anyone is falling asleep and can take care of it so the driver can focus on the road.
[...]

So, I guess my point is, if the driver in the OP really had a problem with sleeping passengers there was a better way he could have handled it. And if it was just a "I can't sleep so you can't either" thing, something that didn't really pose a hazard and he could have easily lived with, though his circumstances weren't exactly what he would have wanted, he was childish and petty to distract himself from the road just to wake her up.

In this situation the OP *did* know the driver's position on it, at least after the first trip, and yet she didn't decline. The driver wasn't unclear about his expectations, given the first drive in which the OP fell asleep, and the OP wasn't unaware she'd fall asleep, given the first drive in which she did fall asleep.

So, the person who engineered this situation of the driver being distracted isn't the driver -- it's the OP. Why should the driver have to live with something, even if it didn't pose a hazard, in his own car when he was driving the OP as a favor and she had the option of driving herself? It seems to me that the OP is the one being childish and petty by refusing to abide by the driver's rules for his own car or make alternate arrangements for herself. And she was choosing to do this when she *knew* it distracted the driver. it was his car getting wear-and-tear, his gas, his generosity, and I really don't see how someone can argue it's anything but completely reasonable for him to expect that, in exchange for this generosity, people abide by his car rules, whether it's that he gets to control the radio station, that no one may eat in the car, or that no one can sleep in the car.

This. Also the OP says he "insists" on driving, but I haven't heard how exactly he is doing that. Did the OP offer to drive everyone, but the guy said, "no don't go with her, come in my car"? Did she say "well, I'm driving anyway" and guy says, "well, you can't hike with us if you don't ride with me"?

It really sounds like the OP wants to eat her cake (not drive herself, let someone else take on the long drive, the expense, wear and tear, etc) yet have it too (disregarding the driver's and everyone elses' wishes as to remaining alert enough to be companionable).

I certainly give her a pass the first time, as you don't know how tired you'll be, but once you are made aware of the culture of a specific group, to continue to insist on 'your' way makes it obvious that perhaps OP isn't a good fit for this group.

PeasNCues

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #156 on: August 05, 2010, 12:29:32 PM »
I think that if an accident occurs because someone taps their breaks, it's the other drivers who was driving inattentively or dangerously. There really is no reason a person should see brakelights flash and get so confused that they cause an accident. How could this happen? They slow down? They move lanes without checking first? That's them. Just because they completed the dangerous action whilst confused and disctracted because someone's brakelights flashed for a fraction of a second doesn't mean that the action of taping on the breaks is dangerous to other drivers.
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whatsanenigma

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #157 on: August 05, 2010, 12:53:30 PM »
Honestly, I  I really don't see how someone can argue it's anything but completely reasonable for him to expect that, in exchange for this generosity, people abide by his car rules, whether it's that he gets to control the radio station, that no one may eat in the car, or that no one can sleep in the car.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear that I wasn't addressing the OP, only the reaction to what happened.

Even if you can say the OP was rude, no question, oh my goodness how dare she, that is independent of the reaction of the driver, or anyone else.

Does her "rudeness" justify the driver's actions? I honestly don't see that it does. We talk so much on this board about how "retaliatory rudeness" is just as bad as the initial rudeness, and I think at the very least that applies to this situation.

If the actions of a passenger are affecting your ability to drive, pull over and address it. If the actions of a passenger are just annoying you, then say nothing for the time and address it later. What I'm saying is that if her falling asleep was just annoying, then the driver was really out of line to put other passengers in danger just because he was annoyed. And if it was a genuine safety issue, it should all have been hashed out, in a conversation initiated by him, before the OP ever even got in the car for the first time.

That is all I am saying and of course it is IMHO.

DangerMouth

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2010, 12:56:15 PM »
I agree that it's juvenile of the driver, tho I'm not sure I'd call it rude. But certainly the driver saying "hey you guys, wake up sleepy hiker" would be better than trying to do it himself while driving.

KenveeB

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #159 on: August 05, 2010, 01:41:30 PM »
The OP also specifically said the driver would tap the brakes "when it was safe to do so," so all the speculations about situations in which it could be unsafe are irrelevant.  There are times and ways when tapping the brakes would be unsafe, there are times and ways when it would be safe.  OP, the one who was there, has already told us which way it was.  Given that she's the one complaining about the driver's actions, I don't think that she would have downplayed his actions if they were really severe and unsafe, as that would support her side of things.

Edit: I looked up the exact wording, and it was "gently tapping the brakes if the roadway was clear."  Which I think is even more supportive of the driver.  The roadway was clear.  There are no drivers around getting confused at signals and somehow crashing into the car.  And it was "gently", not slamming or flinging grocery bags around.  A gentle tap will jostle the car enough that anyone "nodding off" would notice without turning it into some dramatic action that's about to cause an accident.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 01:45:51 PM by KenveeB »

high dudgeon

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #160 on: August 05, 2010, 03:05:06 PM »
If the OP was asleep, how could she know whether the roadway was clear? I was a little confused on that. But I still don't think it's a good method in general, even if it wasn't a specific safety problem in this case.

PeasNCues

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #161 on: August 05, 2010, 03:06:08 PM »
If the OP was asleep, how could she know whether the roadway was clear? I was a little confused on that. But I still don't think it's a good method in general, even if it wasn't a specific safety problem in this case.


Well, when she woke up from the jostling and looked around, she could see no cars.

That's what I assume anyways.

I'm still having problems seeing the safety issue.
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

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high dudgeon

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #162 on: August 05, 2010, 03:10:53 PM »
I don't think it's a huge safety issue, but why play games with a huge, heavy, people-packed vehicle in motion when it would be just as easy and effective to say, "Hey, wake up, sleepyhead!" or "Betsey, could you nudge her a tiny bit, she's fallen asleep?"

June24

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #163 on: August 05, 2010, 04:06:13 PM »
Honestly, I think that if a driver has genuine objections to people sleeping in the car, especially if this poses a safety hazard to that driver and especially if it's not okay if just one person stays awake, it is really really important for that driver to always make that known when offering a ride to anyone. That way people who know they are likely to fall asleep can decline And arrangements can be made regarding if someone who usually doesn't fall asleep does, how will they be woken up? Because falling asleep in a car can happen even to someone it's never happened to before, as we know. Other passengers can be alert to if anyone is falling asleep and can take care of it so the driver can focus on the road.
[...]

So, I guess my point is, if the driver in the OP really had a problem with sleeping passengers there was a better way he could have handled it. And if it was just a "I can't sleep so you can't either" thing, something that didn't really pose a hazard and he could have easily lived with, though his circumstances weren't exactly what he would have wanted, he was childish and petty to distract himself from the road just to wake her up.

In this situation the OP *did* know the driver's position on it, at least after the first trip, and yet she didn't decline. The driver wasn't unclear about his expectations, given the first drive in which the OP fell asleep, and the OP wasn't unaware she'd fall asleep, given the first drive in which she did fall asleep.

So, the person who engineered this situation of the driver being distracted isn't the driver -- it's the OP. Why should the driver have to live with something, even if it didn't pose a hazard, in his own car when he was driving the OP as a favor and she had the option of driving herself? It seems to me that the OP is the one being childish and petty by refusing to abide by the driver's rules for his own car or make alternate arrangements for herself. And she was choosing to do this when she *knew* it distracted the driver. it was his car getting wear-and-tear, his gas, his generosity, and I really don't see how someone can argue it's anything but completely reasonable for him to expect that, in exchange for this generosity, people abide by his car rules, whether it's that he gets to control the radio station, that no one may eat in the car, or that no one can sleep in the car.

This. Also the OP says he "insists" on driving, but I haven't heard how exactly he is doing that. Did the OP offer to drive everyone, but the guy said, "no don't go with her, come in my car"? Did she say "well, I'm driving anyway" and guy says, "well, you can't hike with us if you don't ride with me"?

It really sounds like the OP wants to eat her cake (not drive herself, let someone else take on the long drive, the expense, wear and tear, etc) yet have it too (disregarding the driver's and everyone elses' wishes as to remaining alert enough to be companionable).

I certainly give her a pass the first time, as you don't know how tired you'll be, but once you are made aware of the culture of a specific group, to continue to insist on 'your' way makes it obvious that perhaps OP isn't a good fit for this group.

Yes, I completely agree with the bolded - it sums up perfectly the problems that I have with OP's behavior.

JoieGirl7

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #164 on: August 05, 2010, 05:56:10 PM »
Honestly, I think that if a driver has genuine objections to people sleeping in the car, especially if this poses a safety hazard to that driver and especially if it's not okay if just one person stays awake, it is really really important for that driver to always make that known when offering a ride to anyone. That way people who know they are likely to fall asleep can decline And arrangements can be made regarding if someone who usually doesn't fall asleep does, how will they be woken up? Because falling asleep in a car can happen even to someone it's never happened to before, as we know. Other passengers can be alert to if anyone is falling asleep and can take care of it so the driver can focus on the road.
[...]

So, I guess my point is, if the driver in the OP really had a problem with sleeping passengers there was a better way he could have handled it. And if it was just a "I can't sleep so you can't either" thing, something that didn't really pose a hazard and he could have easily lived with, though his circumstances weren't exactly what he would have wanted, he was childish and petty to distract himself from the road just to wake her up.

In this situation the OP *did* know the driver's position on it, at least after the first trip, and yet she didn't decline. The driver wasn't unclear about his expectations, given the first drive in which the OP fell asleep, and the OP wasn't unaware she'd fall asleep, given the first drive in which she did fall asleep.

So, the person who engineered this situation of the driver being distracted isn't the driver -- it's the OP. Why should the driver have to live with something, even if it didn't pose a hazard, in his own car when he was driving the OP as a favor and she had the option of driving herself? It seems to me that the OP is the one being childish and petty by refusing to abide by the driver's rules for his own car or make alternate arrangements for herself. And she was choosing to do this when she *knew* it distracted the driver. it was his car getting wear-and-tear, his gas, his generosity, and I really don't see how someone can argue it's anything but completely reasonable for him to expect that, in exchange for this generosity, people abide by his car rules, whether it's that he gets to control the radio station, that no one may eat in the car, or that no one can sleep in the car.

This. Also the OP says he "insists" on driving, but I haven't heard how exactly he is doing that. Did the OP offer to drive everyone, but the guy said, "no don't go with her, come in my car"? Did she say "well, I'm driving anyway" and guy says, "well, you can't hike with us if you don't ride with me"?

It really sounds like the OP wants to eat her cake (not drive herself, let someone else take on the long drive, the expense, wear and tear, etc) yet have it too (disregarding the driver's and everyone elses' wishes as to remaining alert enough to be companionable).

I certainly give her a pass the first time, as you don't know how tired you'll be, but once you are made aware of the culture of a specific group, to continue to insist on 'your' way makes it obvious that perhaps OP isn't a good fit for this group.

Yes, I completely agree with the bolded - it sums up perfectly the problems that I have with OP's behavior.

And I think that's piling on.
 
To make it out like she is a freeloader because this guy insisted on driving is not fair to her.  He had received offers of payment for gas and for doing the driving from her and from others in the group that he refused.
 
So, as far as this guy playing bus driver--he owns that completely.
 
Whether or not you think he has the right to dictate whether or not people can sleep in his car is really the center of the subject and I don't think anyone's mind is going to be changed as far as what they think.  But, let's not make the OP out to be a freeloader-because she wasn't.
 
She was falling asleep after a long day of hiking, no matter how you feel about the propriety of that, its at least more understandable than someone who falls asleep on the way to a party or other outing because they didn't get enough sleep and were unprepared for the outing.
 
In short, let's discuss the issue at hand and not cast aspersions on the OP.  She is not Marie Antoinette.