Author Topic: Rude to sleep in car?  (Read 17177 times)

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jimithing

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #90 on: August 02, 2010, 08:50:33 PM »
I do think that there is a cultural etiquette norm. And this particular group has decided, that for their culture, it is inconsiderate/rude to fall asleep during this kind of ride. Many groups wouldn't care. This particular group does, and I do think that there is something to be said for respecting that, even if I think it's ridiculous or silly.

KenveeB

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #91 on: August 02, 2010, 08:53:01 PM »
It's not their opinion, it's their outward manifestation of it I don't agree with.  If Aunt Martha dozes off in her chair after Thanksgiving dinner, when others are socializing, does everyone stab her with a pumpkin-pie fork and say "Aunt M, you are so rude not to pay attention to us! The event is not over yet!"  If not, how does the car ride after a day of hiking differ?  And again, what other bodily functions does the owner of the vehicle control? 

Is that really what a caring friend would ask?  Snap yourself with pain, chug caffeine and otherwise stimulate yourself just so that you can pay attention to meeee on a one- or two-hour drive home?  Or, I'll hit the brakes to jolt you awake (a reckless, petty-minded and juvenile move by a driver if ever there was one) if you aren't providing the demanded audience for meeee. 

In my circles, if a person were dozing off, their seatmate would probably say "Here, roll up my jacket and use it as a pillow; want me to ask Boor to turn the radio down?"  Not "inflict pain on yourself so that you can provide an audience for our antics." 

OP, what are you going to do next time a hike is planned? 

So now you want to control everyone else by not allowing them to listen to the radio because you want to sleep?  You're talking about being just as controlling, it's just on a different subject.  I wouldn't stab Aunt Martha with a fork, but I might nudge her if I noticed her starting to fall asleep -- if the group dynamic was for everyone to stay awake and chat after eating.  If the group dynamic was (like at my family's) to watch football and nap after dinner, I'd let her be.  It all depends on the group that you're in.  If you don't like the group dynamics, then your solution is to leave the group, not to try to control everyone else to do things the way you personally want and not to announce that they're all controlling boors.

BettyDraper

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #92 on: August 02, 2010, 08:58:31 PM »
BettyDraper, what about those who say that they can't have people sleeping in the car because it makes them sleepy? Are they "boors" with control issues as well?

As I've said, people who can't safely complete a trip under ordinary conditions (and it is very, very ordinary for passengers to fall asleep in any mode of transport) should not be taking on the responsibility in the first place.  I would not ride with someone who was that dependent on external stimuli even if I had no intention of napping. 

Sharnita

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #93 on: August 02, 2010, 09:04:54 PM »
BettyDraper, what about those who say that they can't have people sleeping in the car because it makes them sleepy? Are they "boors" with control issues as well?

As I've said, people who can't safely complete a trip under ordinary conditions (and it is very, very ordinary for passengers to fall asleep in any mode of transport) should not be taking on the responsibility in the first place.  I would not ride with someone who was that dependent on external stimuli even if I had no intention of napping. 

Betty, I agree.  I think they are boors if they insist on driving when even one person sleeping threatens their ability to be an alert driver.

BettyDraper

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #94 on: August 02, 2010, 09:07:15 PM »
It's not their opinion, it's their outward manifestation of it I don't agree with.  If Aunt Martha dozes off in her chair after Thanksgiving dinner, when others are socializing, does everyone stab her with a pumpkin-pie fork and say "Aunt M, you are so rude not to pay attention to us! The event is not over yet!"  If not, how does the car ride after a day of hiking differ?  And again, what other bodily functions does the owner of the vehicle control? 

Is that really what a caring friend would ask?  Snap yourself with pain, chug caffeine and otherwise stimulate yourself just so that you can pay attention to meeee on a one- or two-hour drive home?  Or, I'll hit the brakes to jolt you awake (a reckless, petty-minded and juvenile move by a driver if ever there was one) if you aren't providing the demanded audience for meeee. 

In my circles, if a person were dozing off, their seatmate would probably say "Here, roll up my jacket and use it as a pillow; want me to ask Boor to turn the radio down?"  Not "inflict pain on yourself so that you can provide an audience for our antics." 

OP, what are you going to do next time a hike is planned? 

So now you want to control everyone else by not allowing them to listen to the radio because you want to sleep?  You're talking about being just as controlling, it's just on a different subject.  I wouldn't stab Aunt Martha with a fork, but I might nudge her if I noticed her starting to fall asleep -- if the group dynamic was for everyone to stay awake and chat after eating.  If the group dynamic was (like at my family's) to watch football and nap after dinner, I'd let her be.  It all depends on the group that you're in.  If you don't like the group dynamics, then your solution is to leave the group, not to try to control everyone else to do things the way you personally want and not to announce that they're all controlling boors.

What I meant was vis a vis the radio example is that fellow passengers would show some concern for a sleepy friend's comfort, not expect her to pinch herself or use a rubber band (!!!) or otherwise inflict discomfort on herself just to satisfy their own craving for attention.  How that concern is addressed could range from the temp inside the car to use of pillows to ambient sound, whatever is practical.  Point being, they would show tolerance and understanding, not a childish demand for conformity or an obsession with minutia.  

KenveeB

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #95 on: August 02, 2010, 09:27:43 PM »
What I meant was vis a vis the radio example is that fellow passengers would show some concern for a sleepy friend's comfort, not expect her to pinch herself or use a rubber band (!!!) or otherwise inflict discomfort on herself just to satisfy their own craving for attention.  How that concern is addressed could range from the temp inside the car to use of pillows to ambient sound, whatever is practical.  Point being, they would show tolerance and understanding, not a childish demand for conformity or an obsession with minutia.  

Why shouldn't you show concern for your friend the driver's company, especially when they're the one doing the group a favor by doing the work and putting the wear on their own car?  You keep talking about him "insisting" on driving, but all the OP ever said was that he offered and was "fine" with it.  Why can't you the sleepy use "temperature, pillows, ambient sound, of whatever is practical" to stay awake instead of ignoring all of your other friends and treating your friend the driver like hired help?  You could show tolerance and understanding for how everyone else feels, not a childish demand for everything to be your way.

My point would be the same if the driver was the only person insisting on people staying awake, btw.  In that case, he should let people sleep or stop offering to drive the group.  Either go along with the group dynamics or make other arrangements for the trip, don't force everyone else to do things the way you alone want them.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 09:31:29 PM by KenveeB »

Sharnita

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #96 on: August 02, 2010, 09:30:08 PM »
He insisted on driving every time, because he enjoyed doing nice things for others. Of course we socialized and chatted during the hike itself, but our drives home were always on the quiet side, like I said earlier, because we were all wiped out. If someone had been real chatty, it probably wouldn't of been appreciated. But I was always the only one who dozed off for some reason. Really, sometimes I was so tired from the hike I honestly couldn't help it  :-[

This is the post we are referring to.

KenveeB

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #97 on: August 02, 2010, 09:32:56 PM »
He insisted on driving every time, because he enjoyed doing nice things for others. Of course we socialized and chatted during the hike itself, but our drives home were always on the quiet side, like I said earlier, because we were all wiped out. If someone had been real chatty, it probably wouldn't of been appreciated. But I was always the only one who dozed off for some reason. Really, sometimes I was so tired from the hike I honestly couldn't help it  :-[

This is the post we are referring to.

Point, sorry.  But she still only said that he was "fine" with it and "offered", not that anyone else ever offered or he refused to let anyone else do it.  There's nothing in the OP to suggest that he was being rigid or controlling about it, just that he had the car everyone fit in.  Sounds like he was being nice ("because he enjoyed doing nice things for others") and everyone, including the OP, has been happy to let him do it.

BettyDraper

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #98 on: August 02, 2010, 09:40:25 PM »
Have I mentioned the driver insisting upon driving?  Where?

I thought it was generally accepted here on this etiquette board that the host is responsible for the guests' comfort.  The driver/vehicle owner is the host.  As you said, he's not "the hired hand;" he voluntarily has accepted a role that involves the safety and comfort of numerous people.  The passengers are the guests.  It is crass and ill-mannered of a host to belittle a guest for something as fundamental (and relatively involuntary) as fatigue and sleepiness, or to abuse his power to cause others discomfort while they are confined in his control.

I ask again: If a passenger requested a rest stop and the majority of the group said "We don't need to go, forge on!" -- would it be considered a case of "my car, my rules" (and frankly I've always thought the "my house, my rules," meme to be unnecessarily rigid and black-and-white) and kudos to the driver for saying "Sorry OP but you'll just have to hold it till we get home -- and I'll do some extra swerving around to make sure your bulging bladder ricochets around inside your abdominal cavity!  Because I'm just that kind of guy!"  Would that be OK, like jostling the OP awake with erratic motions of the car is apparently OK with some of you?

Who on earth would spend a millisecond more than necessary with these people?  

KenveeB

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #99 on: August 02, 2010, 11:10:46 PM »
The driver isn't the host; he's doing a necessary service for the benefit of the rest of the group.  And yeah, in every group car ride I've been on, we don't stop if one person says "I'd like to stop."  You never get anywhere that way.  We find a time and place that works for everyone.  It usually doesn't take very long.  If the person says "I really need to stop" then that's a different story, but one person's mild desire doesn't trump the rest of the group.  And if one person was saying "I want to stop" every ten minutes while the rest of the group was ready to get home already, then I would also be suggesting that person find alternate transport in the future if she wants to keep stopping so often.

The OP could've stopped this after the first time by offering to drive the group herself and letting everyone sleep if they wanted.  She wants to have the benefit of having someone else drive her and get to decide on all the rules.  That's what you hire someone for.  In a group, you make compromises and let majority rule if there are disputes.

BettyDraper

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #100 on: August 03, 2010, 07:28:24 AM »
The driver isn't the host; he's doing a necessary service for the benefit of the rest of the group.  And yeah, in every group car ride I've been on, we don't stop if one person says "I'd like to stop."  You never get anywhere that way.  We find a time and place that works for everyone.  It usually doesn't take very long.  If the person says "I really need to stop" then that's a different story, but one person's mild desire doesn't trump the rest of the group.  And if one person was saying "I want to stop" every ten minutes while the rest of the group was ready to get home already, then I would also be suggesting that person find alternate transport in the future if she wants to keep stopping so often.

The OP could've stopped this after the first time by offering to drive the group herself and letting everyone sleep if they wanted.  She wants to have the benefit of having someone else drive her and get to decide on all the rules.  That's what you hire someone for.  In a group, you make compromises and let majority rule if there are disputes.

I think several of us have suggested that the OP find new traveling companions, but that doesn't negate the fact that the driver (whom I believe is in host mode, once people are in his vehicle and under his control as driver of the vehicle)  described in her OP is very immature, selfish and desperate for attention if he's actually slamming on the brakes in order to jolt her awake.  And I can't even imagine the dynamics of "a group" that mandates its members stay awake and participatory lest the rest of the group members miss out on a few minutes of attention.  To your point, what kind of "group" has "rules" about when others can take naps in a moving vehicle?  That's friendship?  Shudder.

PeasNCues

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #101 on: August 03, 2010, 07:39:57 AM »
BettyDraper, I think he taps on the breaks, not slams on the breaks. You seem to be dramatizing what the OP has said.  ;)

I still don't understand where you get he is "immature, selfish and desparate for attention"? Seems a leap.
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BettyDraper

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #102 on: August 03, 2010, 07:59:38 AM »
BettyDraper, I think he taps on the breaks, not slams on the breaks. You seem to be dramatizing what the OP has said.  ;)

I still don't understand where you get he is "immature, selfish and desparate for attention"? Seems a leap.

I'm not dramatizing but I don't have time to look up her exact wording.  He is manipulating the vehicle in a manner that he hopes will keep sleepy passengers awake -- a mere 'tap' would not 'jostle' a normal-sized person -- and either way it's creepy, controlling, immature and selfish among other things.  Is this guy 16?

Anyone who is more concerned about keeping his audience awake than for his guests' comfort also is immature, selfish and desperate for attention, in my book.  Can anyone really think of a defense for this guy or for the other clods who guilt someone into staying awake? (And "needing company to stay awake himself" is not an excuse; he shouldn't be driving if his waking state is that precarious.)  In a closed vehicle, traveling at normal highway speeds, there isn't much to do, and the sleeping/waking state of the immobile passengers is irrelevant -- unless one is so lacking in inner resources that one requires one's "friends" to be available non-stop.

Granny Takes a Trip

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #103 on: August 03, 2010, 08:10:23 AM »
BettyDraper, I think he taps on the breaks, not slams on the breaks. You seem to be dramatizing what the OP has said.  ;)

I still don't understand where you get he is "immature, selfish and desparate for attention"? Seems a leap.

I'm not dramatizing but I don't have time to look up her exact wording.  He is manipulating the vehicle in a manner that he hopes will keep sleepy passengers awake -- a mere 'tap' would not 'jostle' a normal-sized person -- and either way it's creepy, controlling, immature and selfish among other things.  Is this guy 16?

Anyone who is more concerned about keeping his audience awake than for his guests' comfort also is immature, selfish and desperate for attention, in my book.  Can anyone really think of a defense for this guy or for the other clods who guilt someone into staying awake? (And "needing company to stay awake himself" is not an excuse; he shouldn't be driving if his waking state is that precarious.)  In a closed vehicle, traveling at normal highway speeds, there isn't much to do, and the sleeping/waking state of the immobile passengers is irrelevant -- unless one is so lacking in inner resources that one requires one's "friends" to be available non-stop.

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KenveeB

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Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #104 on: August 03, 2010, 08:12:07 AM »
Anyone who is more concerned about keeping his audience awake than for his guests' comfort also is immature, selfish and desperate for attention, in my book.  Can anyone really think of a defense for this guy or for the other clods who guilt someone into staying awake? (And "needing company to stay awake himself" is not an excuse; he shouldn't be driving if his waking state is that precarious.)  In a closed vehicle, traveling at normal highway speeds, there isn't much to do, and the sleeping/waking state of the immobile passengers is irrelevant -- unless one is so lacking in inner resources that one requires one's "friends" to be available non-stop.

Yes, several of us have suggested multiple possible reasons.  You seem to have completely ignored all of them in favor of labeling us all boors.