Author Topic: Rude to sleep in car?  (Read 18772 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21545
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #195 on: August 09, 2010, 03:48:57 PM »
I think it depends if others have offered to drive and/or compensate.  If an individual insists on his/her vehicle that gets terrible gas mileage when other vehicles are available then I think he/she souldn't expect much in terms of gas money.  I think that if they turn down gas money a couple times they shouldn't expect their passengers to keep trying to convince tehm  otherwise.  I see tht not as people freeloading but of people being forced into indebtedness.

whatsanenigma

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #196 on: August 09, 2010, 03:51:02 PM »
But, then, I think the others should pitch in with some kind of compensation or gas money because otherwise, everyone in the car is then kind of freeloading whether they are sleeping or not.  I don't think that not sleeping in the car makes up for not driving or pitching in monetarily.

I have been thinking about this and I am wondering if it should be viewed as, if one person insists on doing all the driving, and paying for all the gas, although others have offered, then that driver becomes more like the host of a party than they were before.

We have had many, many threads here where we discuss whether or not someone was a "bad host" and we do come to the conclusion that yes, sometimes a host is a bad host. There are certain rules of hospitality involving reciprocal obligations between guests and hosts, and while the guest does have important obligations, and the host has the right to set certain rules and boundaries, we don't just say "your house/party, your rules" and that magically makes anything the host does okay.

I realize that for what it's worth I've been viewing the driver in the OP the same way I would someone who invited people over to his house for a party and paid for all the food and drinks and such and didn't expect anything in return besides reasonable expectations for guests, and so he is therefore under the obligation of a host to be gracious if someone commits what he considers a "faux pas". No, as a host you don't want someone passing gas noticeably at your dinner table, for example, but by the same token you do not point at the offender and loudly call them out. You pretend as though you did not notice. That is, of course, proper etiquette.

I also realize that others in this thread might not be seeing this the same way. The driver, to them, is merely someone who is doing a huge favor to some other people. Not that this is a small thing. But if it is simply a huge favor, then his obligations are different, IMHO.

I don't know, what do you all think?

whatsanenigma

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #197 on: August 09, 2010, 03:54:56 PM »
I see tht not as people freeloading but of people being forced into indebtedness.

If we consider him to be the "host" in that situation, though, I don't see there is indebtedness.

If we attend a party at someone's house we do not consider ourselves freeloaders because we freely partake of the offered hospitality even though we brought no food or drinks or games or whatever ourselves.

Of course, if we see this as more a host/guest situation, the obligations of the "host" change, though, IMHO.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21545
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #198 on: August 09, 2010, 04:03:39 PM »
I see tht not as people freeloading but of people being forced into indebtedness.

If we consider him to be the "host" in that situation, though, I don't see there is indebtedness.

If we attend a party at someone's house we do not consider ourselves freeloaders because we freely partake of the offered hospitality even though we brought no food or drinks or games or whatever ourselves.

Of course, if we see this as more a host/guest situation, the obligations of the "host" change, though, IMHO.

If your host never agreed to be your guest, always insisted that he host but also expected to control what his guests were doing would he really be much of a host?

whatsanenigma

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #199 on: August 09, 2010, 04:10:56 PM »
If your host never agreed to be your guest, always insisted that he host but also expected to control what his guests were doing would he really be much of a host?

Yes, that's what I'm getting at.

If he is taking on the responsibilities of a host, there are certain obligations that go with that. Such as making sure your guests do not feel uncomfortable in any way regarding a perceived need to "pitch in" or even to be the host of him in his turn. And "picking your battles" regarding what you will insist upon regarding behavior, especially random unfortunate bodily function behavior, of your guests.

If he is not taking on the responsibilities of a host, then he really is putting his passengers in a difficult situation because then they feel uncomfortable, like "freeloaders", but they have no way to pay him back and make things even again.

WhiteTigerCub

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2423
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #200 on: August 09, 2010, 04:11:47 PM »
Sleeping does not equal compensation for gas and wear and tear of a vehicle and IMHO really has nothing to do with the expectation that the driver is 'hosting' the event just because he/she offers their vehicle and driving skills.

*snickers at the thought*  If we equate the driver to being a host of the trip because he/she is paying for all the gas, then he/she should anticipate the riders in the car will be tired after a long day of hiking and should be required to provide pillows, blankets, eats and drinks for the car ride home.

Polite jania would find a way to thank the driver for driving to and from the event, either in the way of monetary compesnsation or doing some sort of favor in appreciation. I hardly think just staying awake in the vehicle during the drive shows any level of gratitude.

Arizona

whatsanenigma

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #201 on: August 09, 2010, 04:13:26 PM »
Polite jania would find a way to thank the driver for driving to and from the event, either in the way of monetary compesnsation or doing some sort of favor in appreciation. I hardly think just staying awake in the vehicle during the drive shows any level of gratitude.

Well, yes, I would agree with that. A proper "thank you" goes a long way in many situations.

But when the driver has clearly refused to accept money, then it's rude, I think, to insist he take it.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21545
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #202 on: August 09, 2010, 04:17:07 PM »
Polite jania would find a way to thank the driver for driving to and from the event, either in the way of monetary compesnsation or doing some sort of favor in appreciation. I hardly think just staying awake in the vehicle during the drive shows any level of gratitude.

Well, yes, I would agree with that. A proper "thank you" goes a long way in many situations.

But when the driver has clearly refused to accept money, then it's rude, I think, to insist he take it.

And how many times do you do that?  if you offer every time and he insists he doesn't want money, he wants to drive, etc.  do you have the same discussion when he insists on driving the 8th time if your money has been rejected 7 times?  Do you trick him into taking money or a favor?

JoieGirl7

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7390
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #203 on: August 09, 2010, 04:21:32 PM »
I see tht not as people freeloading but of people being forced into indebtedness.

If we consider him to be the "host" in that situation, though, I don't see there is indebtedness.

If we attend a party at someone's house we do not consider ourselves freeloaders because we freely partake of the offered hospitality even though we brought no food or drinks or games or whatever ourselves.

Of course, if we see this as more a host/guest situation, the obligations of the "host" change, though, IMHO.

If your host never agreed to be your guest, always insisted that he host but also expected to control what his guests were doing would he really be much of a host?

I don't view him as a "host."  I think its kind of rude to co-opt a group activity as your own party, so to speak.
 
He is just a member of the group.  If he truly wants to sacrifice for the group and drive all the time without gas money or compensation, he shouldn't also get special status where he doesn't have to make compromises.

whatsanenigma

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #204 on: August 09, 2010, 04:22:03 PM »
*snickers at the thought*  If we equate the driver to being a host of the trip because he/she is paying for all the gas, then he/she should anticipate the riders in the car will be tired after a long day of hiking and should be required to provide pillows, blankets, eats and drinks for the car ride home.

And I don't think anyone has ever said that the host of a party should anticipate any and all possible needs of guests and be prepared to accomodate them.

Although yes, I would think that it would be nice if a driver realized that people will likely be tired after a hike, and at the very least didn't set up the expectation that they would not sleep.

My point is, someone freely offering hospitality (in this case, by insisting on driving and by refusing money from other passengers) is doing it because being nice to others, hosting them, gives him pleasure and satisfaction. To be a host means that you give no expectation of getting anything in return.

Even if you really do, because politeness says that this is proper on the part of your guests. If the driver of the car is the host in this case, then yes, a nice "thank you" of some kind is in order from his passengers. A nice card, maybe. And he'd be well within his rights if he came to a board like this and expressed that he was frustrated, if his passengers never thanked him in any way.

We don't send invitations to our own wedding out with a note that says "you better RSVP properly by the given date and you better not add any extra people or you are a thoughtless social misfit and I will call and scream at you" although yes, we do expect our guests to respond properly by the due date and not add extra people.

And by the same token we do not include a note in our gift to an HC that says "you better send me a handwritten thank you note that specifically mentions this gift and what you're going to do with it even if you hate it and are just going to stick it in the garage and hope the next flood ruins it, or else..." No, we don't do that, though we do expect some kind of thank you note, hopefully a proper one.

That's more what I'm getting at.

whatsanenigma

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #205 on: August 09, 2010, 04:25:14 PM »

He is just a member of the group.  If he truly wants to sacrifice for the group and drive all the time without gas money or compensation, he shouldn't also get special status where he doesn't have to make compromises.


Which is why I say he is like a host, because a host makes many compromises. A good host, anyway.

In this case, the driver is trying to have it both ways, it seems to me, and if you're really going to drive all the way with no  money given to you, then yes that's a sacrifice, and to me he is under the obligation of a host not to make unreasonable demands, and to overlook small things that don't go exactly as he planned.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21545
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #206 on: August 09, 2010, 04:26:48 PM »
but those examples tend to be reciprocal.  the host at the wedding is presumably a guest at others' weddings.  if they had a policy that they never attended anybody else's wedding/party/dinner/event then I wouldn't assume that being nice gave them pleasure, I'd probably suspect that being in control gave them pleasure.

whatsanenigma

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #207 on: August 09, 2010, 04:30:22 PM »
but those examples tend to be reciprocal.  the host at the wedding is presumably a guest at others' weddings.  if they had a policy that they never attended anybody else's wedding/party/dinner/event then I wouldn't assume that being nice gave them pleasure, I'd probably suspect that being in control gave them pleasure.

That is a good point and of course it's entirely possible that in this case, it's just the being in control that gave this driver pleasure.

It's impossible to tell at this distance, I suppose.

But maybe what I am trying to say is that it could be interpreted as evidence that it's just the being in control that gave him pleasure, if he wanted to take on the good parts of being a host (having more control over an event) without the bad parts (an obligation to be gracious to guests and at the very least, not point out when they make a social misstep or do something not exactly as you had planned).

WhiteTigerCub

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2423
Re: Rude to sleep in car?
« Reply #208 on: August 09, 2010, 04:33:19 PM »
I don't view him as a "host."  I think its kind of rude to co-opt a group activity as your own party, so to speak.
 
He is just a member of the group.  
I agree 100% with this. :)

I may have said it poorly, but I do not see the driver as a host unless they planned/paid for the entire event themselves.

Arizona