Present swap meanies

[MineralDiva]

I too, dislike the whole gift exchange idea.  Particularly when it is handled so rudely on the part of the adults in charge.

A lecture about who deserves to take a gift and who doesn't...and forcing the segregation right there?  Gave me a knot in my gut to read it!

Though if they MUST keep the exchange, the ticket idea is a good one.  But what about the kid who for whatever reason doesn't bring a gift? 

If there is going to be any gifting done, perhaps the senseis could chip in for some little token thing to give each child...no matter who got the notices about bringing one to exchange or not.

That way the kids aren't buying for eachother.  But everyone gets a little something special from their teachers to celebrate the holiday.

Do people bring the senseis gifts?  How come THEY can accept them, but not give anything to their students?  If they didn't give one to their students, then by their own "rules," they shouldn't take one either!

[Alida]

Well, I don't know about the bumping back a belt level idea, because a) At that age, it's as much the parent's fault as the child's, if not more, since the parent is the one buying the gift (or not), and b) Rudeness has no bearing on karate ability, but there *should* be repercussions, whether they come in the form of a stern talking-to from the sensei, or missing out on the next tournament, party, or fun activity that's planned.

I don't know about bumping back a belt level, but there should be some repercussion. The ages weren't noted, but any child in our school (we start teaching at 4) is aware that integrity is central to our training.  As for rudeness... it's also an issue that must be addressed.  A rude student does not progress, regardless of how far along their physical ability is. We're training body and mind together

[Hawkwatcher]

I'm not even remotely surprised by this story and I'm surprised that you guys are. This kind of thing happens all the time, there are parents out there who think nothing of ruining someone else's treat because Little Precious Angelbaby is more deserving, rules or not.
I think the sensei should have found out who didn't bring a gift and took one anyway and strip that person of one color's worth of belt for his dishonesty. I also think that their parents should have been censured as well. Of course, I'm speaking in perfect world generalities here...
I like the ticket idea.
I hope that whatever present that mystery kid stole breaks the first time he uses it and gives him a rash.

Well, I don't know about the bumping back a belt level idea, because a) At that age, it's as much the parent's fault as the child's, if not more, since the parent is the one buying the gift (or not), and b) Rudeness has no bearing on karate ability, but there *should* be repercussions, whether they come in the form of a stern talking-to from the sensei, or missing out on the next tournament, party, or fun activity that's planned.

While I agree that this was the probably the parent's fault, some studios do demote children as a form of discipline.  My studio teaches both children and adults and, at my studio, a child's attitude is as important as his or her skill if not more so.  In order to participate, children expected to get good grades and behave outside the studio.  If they misbehave inside the studio, our instructor has the option of demoting them. 

[Alida]

Do people bring the senseis gifts?  How come THEY can accept them, but not give anything to their students?  If they didn't give one to their students, then by their own "rules," they shouldn't take one either!

There is a difference between a gift swap and giving someone a gift.

[MineralDiva]

<<<<There is a difference between a gift swap and giving someone a gift.>>>>

Yes, I know. Another reason I dislike the idea of gift swapping, when children are involved, as in this instance.

[sammycat]

Secret Santas can be fraught with problems and I also think the ticket idea is a good one.

My son's 1st grade class did a Secret Santa gift swap this year and I just happened to be there when it took place.  Thankfully our teacher had stand by gifts just in case someone didn't bring something (they weren't needed).  One boy sulked and carried on when he opened his gift, I have never seen anything like it to be honest, although based on his behaviour all year I shouldn't have been surprised.  Ironically, the gift he brought to the swap actually fell apart 2 minutes after it was opened but the child receiving that one managed to be a good sport about it.  The present the sulking boy received was actually a very nice item and it was one of the ones that was really oohed and aahed over.

[kareng57]

I'm not even remotely surprised by this story and I'm surprised that you guys are. This kind of thing happens all the time, there are parents out there who think nothing of ruining someone else's treat because Little Precious Angelbaby is more deserving, rules or not.
I think the sensei should have found out who didn't bring a gift and took one anyway and strip that person of one color's worth of belt for his dishonesty. I also think that their parents should have been censured as well. Of course, I'm speaking in perfect world generalities here...
I like the ticket idea.
I hope that whatever present that mystery kid stole breaks the first time he uses it and gives him a rash.

Well, I don't know about the bumping back a belt level idea, because a) At that age, it's as much the parent's fault as the child's, if not more, since the parent is the one buying the gift (or not), and b) Rudeness has no bearing on karate ability, but there *should* be repercussions, whether they come in the form of a stern talking-to from the sensei, or missing out on the next tournament, party, or fun activity that's planned.

While I agree that this was the probably the parent's fault, some studios do demote children as a form of discipline.  My studio teaches both children and adults and, at my studio, a child's attitude is as important as his or her skill if not more so.  In order to participate, children expected to get good grades and behave outside the studio.  If they misbehave inside the studio, our instructor has the option of demoting them. 

Getting good grades?  I do understand the expectation re behaviour inside and outside of the studio, but not all children can achieve good grades, regardless of their effort.  For many of these kids, other activities (music, sports, martial arts etc.) give a great sense of achievement and accomplishment.  It seems kind of punitive to me to demote children in martial arts simply because of their academic grades.

[Quossum]

Or have students "sign in" on a sheet of paper positioned near the tree when they drop off their presents if they're participating.

Still, only *one* child didn't bring a gift for the exchange?  That's pretty cringe-worthy, parent's fault or not.  And the "warning speech" before the exchange would have made me feel even worse had I been the kid who didn't bring a present.  I hasten to add, I would *never* have participated if I hadn't brought a present (nor would I have been allowed to by my parents), but to have to stand there watching everyone else open presents?  Ouch.

--Q

[kherbert05]

Getting good grades?  I do understand the expectation re behaviour inside and outside of the studio, but not all children can achieve good grades, regardless of their effort.  For many of these kids, other activities (music, sports, martial arts etc.) give a great sense of achievement and accomplishment.  It seems kind of punitive to me to demote children in martial arts simply because of their academic grades.

I understand what you mean, but I've seen martial arts studios do this in away that encouraged the students. In lower grades they students had to bring proof they had done their reading and homework for the week before to take classes. Since I had X practice is one of the most used excuses, the teachers really appreciated the support. If a kid was having problem with homework or concept the others at the Martial Arts School would help them out.

For secondary students they had to be passing and brought in progress reports and report cards. If they weren't passing, the martial arts instructors paired them with other student or even adults for tutoring. The Martial Arts School had a goal to make sure kids stayed out of gangs and graduated school. The instructor even helped kids find jobs after graduation and during vacations.

For both groups using the skills they learned inappropriately - got you in plenty of hot water and even kicked out.

One girl used her training to fend off an attack by another student (male). Due to the Zero Tolerance of aggressive violent behavior - the boy was suspended and confronted with the police (her parents declined to press charges). The girl was praised for her restraint, and not given a punishment. She knocked the other student on his rear end - actually throwing him some distance and stood her ground. I think communication among the public school, the Martial Arts School, and the local cops helped the Public School make the correct determination.

[kareng57]

Getting good grades?  I do understand the expectation re behaviour inside and outside of the studio, but not all children can achieve good grades, regardless of their effort.  For many of these kids, other activities (music, sports, martial arts etc.) give a great sense of achievement and accomplishment.  It seems kind of punitive to me to demote children in martial arts simply because of their academic grades.

I understand what you mean, but I've seen martial arts studios do this in away that encouraged the students. In lower grades they students had to bring proof they had done their reading and homework for the week before to take classes. Since I had X practice is one of the most used excuses, the teachers really appreciated the support. If a kid was having problem with homework or concept the others at the Martial Arts School would help them out.

For secondary students they had to be passing and brought in progress reports and report cards. If they weren't passing, the martial arts instructors paired them with other student or even adults for tutoring. The Martial Arts School had a goal to make sure kids stayed out of gangs and graduated school. The instructor even helped kids find jobs after graduation and during vacations.

For both groups using the skills they learned inappropriately - got you in plenty of hot water and even kicked out.

One girl used her training to fend off an attack by another student (male). Due to the Zero Tolerance of aggressive violent behavior - the boy was suspended and confronted with the police (her parents declined to press charges). The girl was praised for her restraint, and not given a punishment. She knocked the other student on his rear end - actually throwing him some distance and stood her ground. I think communication among the public school, the Martial Arts School, and the local cops helped the Public School make the correct determination.

Yes, there are some good points as to the aspects that you bring up, and any kind ofsupport among school/sports/other youth groups is more than welcome.

Perhaps we have a better definition of "good" grades, but the fact is that some kids are always going to struggle no matter what kind of tutoring/support they get.  For some kids, achieving even a C in Mathematics could be a major accomplishment for him/her.  But then if he/she slips to a C- in the next semester (probably devastating enough on its own), is he/she then going to be disciplined at Martial Arts School?  That's what doesn't seem right to me.

[Hawkwatcher]

Getting good grades?  I do understand the expectation re behaviour inside and outside of the studio, but not all children can achieve good grades, regardless of their effort.  For many of these kids, other activities (music, sports, martial arts etc.) give a great sense of achievement and accomplishment.  It seems kind of punitive to me to demote children in martial arts simply because of their academic grades.

I understand what you mean, but I've seen martial arts studios do this in away that encouraged the students. In lower grades they students had to bring proof they had done their reading and homework for the week before to take classes. Since I had X practice is one of the most used excuses, the teachers really appreciated the support. If a kid was having problem with homework or concept the others at the Martial Arts School would help them out.

For secondary students they had to be passing and brought in progress reports and report cards. If they weren't passing, the martial arts instructors paired them with other student or even adults for tutoring. The Martial Arts School had a goal to make sure kids stayed out of gangs and graduated school. The instructor even helped kids find jobs after graduation and during vacations.

For both groups using the skills they learned inappropriately - got you in plenty of hot water and even kicked out.

One girl used her training to fend off an attack by another student (male). Due to the Zero Tolerance of aggressive violent behavior - the boy was suspended and confronted with the police (her parents declined to press charges). The girl was praised for her restraint, and not given a punishment. She knocked the other student on his rear end - actually throwing him some distance and stood her ground. I think communication among the public school, the Martial Arts School, and the local cops helped the Public School make the correct determination.

Yes, there are some good points as to the aspects that you bring up, and any kind ofsupport among school/sports/other youth groups is more than welcome.

Perhaps we have a better definition of "good" grades, but the fact is that some kids are always going to struggle no matter what kind of tutoring/support they get.  For some kids, achieving even a C in Mathematics could be a major accomplishment for him/her.  But then if he/she slips to a C- in the next semester (probably devastating enough on its own), is he/she then going to be disciplined at Martial Arts School?  That's what doesn't seem right to me.

Since I do not have children, I do not know what the studio defines as good grades.  However, I suspect that the parents choose whether or not to show the instructor the kid's report card.  Hopefully, the parents have a realistic expectation of what their children are capable of when it comes to grades.  To my knowledge, kids are not demoted for their grades but may miss a class.

I think demotions are reserved for the most severe disciplinary problems.