What on earth do I say when he asks me? Big update: he pressed on...

[ShadesOfGrey]

What if you were just honest?

"Well, I think the guitar playing is phenomenal, and I can really feel the emotion in the melody. But I think the lyrics and the vocals could use some work this time around.  I know what your capable of, and this doesnt strike me as your best work. I wonder if you sang it a little less powerfully if it wold work better with the mood of the song?" 

[magician5]

If you must tell him what his deficiencies are, tell him much more strongly what his strengths are. An intelligent fellow ought to be able to understand that he can be a strong performer, a strong interpreter, but a bad songwriter.

When he sings already-popular songs, is he copying the performance he's heard? (I wish people would stop that). If he's adding his own 'special something' or seeing the material in his own way, and doing it so well that it moves you as a listener, that's a rare skill, and you should tell him often.

[Nora]

I like this.

"Honey - you know, your guitar playing is SO fantastic. Quite honestly I find that your singing detracts from my enjoyment of your fine instrumental skills.   Have you considered writing a song that is strictly instrumental? I think it would be my new favorite."

OK, I laughed at the sneakyness of this line!  It will be tried.

Magician: Yes, he starts out copying the original performance(american idol anyone?), but when I call him on that he can sing it quite beautifully in his own way

I'd really rather not get too involved in his hobby. I don't want him to rely on me for lyrics/lot's of constructive critisism. That would not only ruin the feeling of freedom he get's from this, but it would suck all the fun out of my free evenings. I wish he'd go back to practising the guitar/piano/drums/harmonica. He's very good at learning to play new instruments.

What if you were just honest?

"Well, I think the guitar playing is phenomenal, and I can really feel the emotion in the melody. But I think the lyrics and the vocals could use some work this time around.  I know what your capable of, and this doesnt strike me as your best work. I wonder if you sang it a little less powerfully if it wold work better with the mood of the song?" 

I've said that last sentence 'til I turned blue in the face. He just loves wailing! 

[blarg314]

You genuinely like his instrumental playing, so maybe that's the way to soften the blow. Tell him that you really like his playing, but his vocal songs just don't do it for you - he's trying to do too many things at once, and you'd enjoy it more if it were just playing.

I'd be inclined to be more critical if he's thinking of performing, because he could easily end up looking like the American Idol reject shows - someone who is really terrible at it, but genuinely thinks they are the next best thing.

[sisbam]

That's another reason why I suggested Fieldwork or some artist's workshop. He gets the freedom to learn and grow with other artists and not rely on your critique so much. He'll probably stick to what he's good at (afer a session or two with them). And you'll get the awesome finished product.

Insane amounts of win.

[Nora]

Ok, tonight he asked, and would not let it go. I went with: I really like the music, I find your guitar solos give a lovely atmosphere, I really enjoy your instrumentals.... And he just kept asking.

At this point he knew something was up. He just looked at me with one raised eyebrow and told me to cut to it and tell him what I thought of his singing. 

Then something new happened, he said he knew he wasn't any good at it, but did not know how else to get stuff off his chest! I told him I think he's particularly soulful on a bass guitar, as in really really good. He can tell the story he wants to tell with that instrument. He's also good at mixing audio, so a combination of his strong points has real potential. He learns fast, so it would be a really rewarding learning curve for him, and I'd be proud to hear him play that in front of others. He tried out some things I suggested, very much the dumb leading the deaf, but it worked! He jammed his behind off! It was great fun, and he noticed a drastic difference in quality himself!

I'm so glad I asked all of you!!! It was so much easier to have all the kind, but truthful suggestions at hand when he looked at me with his big blue eyes and told me to tell him what I really thought.
He said he was sick of people just telling him everything was "good" (his parents, and some of his friends), and he respected my opinion because he felt I gave him my objective view of his work. Thank you ehellers! Thank you, thank you thank you!!!! 

[lady_disdain]

That is great Nora. And yeah fo DH, too!

I think most people do know when they aren't very good at something and appreciate the kind honesty you demonstrated.

[hobish]

Nora, that is fantastic! I'm so happy for you that it worked out so well!

[DangerMouth]

Well, the issue never was about how badly he sings, only that he asks you to listen and critique praise it.

But I'm glad you and he found a way through this issue.

[sisbam]

Nice.

[TaylorMade]

This thread has taught me something:

You know all those singers on American Idol who CAN'T sing at all, but think they can?   They always say something about how their family loves to hear them sing and how their mom thinks they are the best.

I always sit and wonder to myself - How can a family lie to their child like that?  How can everyone in this persons life just say 'you are the greatest - keep going! Yeah Simon Cowell will love you and you will be the next American Idol.'   Because the person auditioning really does think they can sing..

So here is what I learned....  The family just doesn't want the contestant to give up on something that gives them so much pleasure and makes the contestant feel good.    Okay, I can understand that.......

Or maybe the families push them to be on the show so that they aren't the ones to finally tell their loved one that they really can't sing!

[Nora]

So here is what I learned....  The family just doesn't want the contestant to give up on something that gives them so much pleasure and makes the contestant feel good.    Okay, I can understand that.......

Or maybe the families push them to be on the show so that they aren't the ones to finally tell their loved one that they really can't sing!

The latter is so cynical, I love it! 

[lady_disdain]

Encouraging them is one thing, but I draw the line way before making a fool of themselves on national television.

[DangerMouth]

Encouraging them is one thing, but I draw the line way before making a fool of themselves on national television.

LOL, I was looking through some X-Factor auditions on youtube the other night and thinking "reeeeaaaaly??" They all told you you've got a great voice???

[chibichan]

Nora , maybe you could suggest a voice coach ? If he loves to sing , it would would help him tremendously .

Birthday gift perhaps ? Phrased as  "To help you hone your skills ."

It probably won't turn him into the next Pavoratti , but it will give him the tools to improve .