Author Topic: Was anyone rude here?  (Read 6068 times)

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bellawitch

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2010, 07:23:41 PM »
OP, since I haven't seen his original sentance I'm making a bit of a leap here,but I don't get that he was insulting your chatacter as your action.

I agree with Betty it is a draw, you could have both done better. However, there is no since in replying or really giving it much more thought, what is done is done. Just think of it as a learning experience in dealing with online dating.

BettyDraper

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2010, 09:38:49 PM »
Just think of it as a learning experience in dealing with online d@ting.

As far as I can see, the OP dealt with it as she should have, unless the suggestion is that next time she should ignore how she feels and date from a sense of obligation.

Casual d@ting, particularly online d@ting, is not equivalent to a social engagement. It has to be flexible by its very nature - there is generally a high "turnover" of dates before any party finds their match. Considerations of safety may not apply in this particular case, but they are part of why the rules for casual dates are not as stringent as for dinner parties. Both parties must not feel they are tied down so a) they can get out of a bad situation (unsafe, or the other party is not as they represented themselves); b) they can walk away without any obligation early on.

(I am not suggesting that other behaviour that would be rude in any other situation would not be rude here, for example standing someone up is definitely rude. I'm referring specifically to the freedom of either party to change their mind while d@ting casually. I think it's an absolutely necessary part of the process.)

Then parties should refrain from making social commitments they may regret later.  I categorically refute the notion that casual daters are exempt from ordinary rules of etiquette.  The notion that -- from an etiquette standpoint -- one can treat potential romantic or s3xual partners more cavalierly than one treats others is gauche and immature, at best.   

One also might consider that such attitudes may explain one's "turnover" rate.

Granny Takes a Trip

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2010, 02:46:14 AM »
Just think of it as a learning experience in dealing with online d@ting.

As far as I can see, the OP dealt with it as she should have, unless the suggestion is that next time she should ignore how she feels and date from a sense of obligation.

Casual d@ting, particularly online d@ting, is not equivalent to a social engagement. It has to be flexible by its very nature - there is generally a high "turnover" of dates before any party finds their match. Considerations of safety may not apply in this particular case, but they are part of why the rules for casual dates are not as stringent as for dinner parties. Both parties must not feel they are tied down so a) they can get out of a bad situation (unsafe, or the other party is not as they represented themselves); b) they can walk away without any obligation early on.

(I am not suggesting that other behaviour that would be rude in any other situation would not be rude here, for example standing someone up is definitely rude. I'm referring specifically to the freedom of either party to change their mind while d@ting casually. I think it's an absolutely necessary part of the process.)

Then parties should refrain from making social commitments they may regret later.  I categorically refute the notion that casual daters are exempt from ordinary rules of etiquette.  The notion that -- from an etiquette standpoint -- one can treat potential romantic or s3xual partners more cavalierly than one treats others is gauche and immature, at best.   

One also might consider that such attitudes may explain one's "turnover" rate.

 :o
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Granny Takes a Trip

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2010, 02:51:43 AM »
Just think of it as a learning experience in dealing with online d@ting.

As far as I can see, the OP dealt with it as she should have, unless the suggestion is that next time she should ignore how she feels and date from a sense of obligation.

Casual d@ting, particularly online d@ting, is not equivalent to a social engagement. It has to be flexible by its very nature - there is generally a high "turnover" of dates before any party finds their match. Considerations of safety may not apply in this particular case, but they are part of why the rules for casual dates are not as stringent as for dinner parties. Both parties must not feel they are tied down so a) they can get out of a bad situation (unsafe, or the other party is not as they represented themselves); b) they can walk away without any obligation early on.

(I am not suggesting that other behaviour that would be rude in any other situation would not be rude here, for example standing someone up is definitely rude. I'm referring specifically to the freedom of either party to change their mind while d@ting casually. I think it's an absolutely necessary part of the process.)

The Glen, thank you for saying what I was trying to say, much more clearly than I managed to. I think that to apply Miss Manners etiquette across the board in an unconsidered manner is shows a blythe yet frankly absurd unawareness
of the realities of today's dating world. OP was acting as many, many others do, and has every right to be annoyed and put off by this man's response.  I agree with posters who say to let it go, and forget that particular man, but there is nothing that OP could have done better. That is just how online dating works. End of story.
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Larrabee

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2010, 04:20:31 AM »
Just think of it as a learning experience in dealing with online d@ting.

As far as I can see, the OP dealt with it as she should have, unless the suggestion is that next time she should ignore how she feels and date from a sense of obligation.

Casual d@ting, particularly online d@ting, is not equivalent to a social engagement. It has to be flexible by its very nature - there is generally a high "turnover" of dates before any party finds their match. Considerations of safety may not apply in this particular case, but they are part of why the rules for casual dates are not as stringent as for dinner parties. Both parties must not feel they are tied down so a) they can get out of a bad situation (unsafe, or the other party is not as they represented themselves); b) they can walk away without any obligation early on.

(I am not suggesting that other behaviour that would be rude in any other situation would not be rude here, for example standing someone up is definitely rude. I'm referring specifically to the freedom of either party to change their mind while d@ting casually. I think it's an absolutely necessary part of the process.)

Then parties should refrain from making social commitments they may regret later.  I categorically refute the notion that casual daters are exempt from ordinary rules of etiquette.  The notion that -- from an etiquette standpoint -- one can treat potential romantic or s3xual partners more cavalierly than one treats others is gauche and immature, at best.   

One also might consider that such attitudes may explain one's "turnover" rate.

Could please explain this statement.  I'm trying to understand how I could meet the right person for me sooner by going on dates with people I have no further interest in.  :-\


Wordgeek

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2010, 11:11:10 AM »
I deleted an inappropriate (= rude) post.  Reminder: Make your point courteously.  That means without calling names, among other things.

Deetee

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2010, 12:08:55 PM »

Surely it would have been even more 'insincere', if not technically rude, to go along for a second date knowing I was only doing it because I felt obliged?




I disagree. Once you committed to a second date, you have accepted a social engagement. That means that baring emergancy/illness or zombie invasion, you must go. At this point (in my mind) the fact that you know you don't plan to accept a third date is irrelevant. dating is not exempt from the standard rules of social etiquette and goes much more smoothly when everyone follows these rules.

(There are definate exceptions. If aspects of his character came to light in the interm that made you concerned about your safety (obsessive, inappropriate emails texts etc...or even a bad, bad feeling) or his character (he is married/embezzling from the company) you could cancel the date. But it should be stuff that would make you ban a friend from your house-well except for the bad feeling. I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to go into a situation theyaren't comfortable with because they feel obligated. But it dosn't sound like that was the case. You just didn't want to persue a romantic relatioship )

I think you treated him poorly.

evely28

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2010, 12:38:11 PM »
You just didn't want to persue a romantic relatioship )

I think you treated him poorly.

But that's the whole point of the second date, the potential of pursuing a romantic relationship. Once the OP realized her feelings wouldn't be going in this direction, I think she was right to call it off as it would be wasting both their time. I think she handled herself fine and the bachelor was smarting a bit at rejection after the first date. How would he have handled rejection after the second date?

The Glen

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2010, 12:48:48 PM »
Just think of it as a learning experience in dealing with online d@ting.

As far as I can see, the OP dealt with it as she should have, unless the suggestion is that next time she should ignore how she feels and date from a sense of obligation.

Casual d@ting, particularly online d@ting, is not equivalent to a social engagement. It has to be flexible by its very nature - there is generally a high "turnover" of dates before any party finds their match. Considerations of safety may not apply in this particular case, but they are part of why the rules for casual dates are not as stringent as for dinner parties. Both parties must not feel they are tied down so a) they can get out of a bad situation (unsafe, or the other party is not as they represented themselves); b) they can walk away without any obligation early on.

(I am not suggesting that other behaviour that would be rude in any other situation would not be rude here, for example standing someone up is definitely rude. I'm referring specifically to the freedom of either party to change their mind while d@ting casually. I think it's an absolutely necessary part of the process.)

Then parties should refrain from making social commitments they may regret later.  I categorically refute the notion that casual daters are exempt from ordinary rules of etiquette.  The notion that -- from an etiquette standpoint -- one can treat potential romantic or s3xual partners more cavalierly than one treats others is gauche and immature, at best.

One also might consider that such attitudes may explain one's "turnover" rate.

I don't think anyone promoted this view. Attributing such an attitude to me is misleading.

Deetee

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2010, 12:59:06 PM »
You just didn't want to persue a romantic relatioship )

I think you treated him poorly.

But that's the whole point of the second date, the potential of pursuing a romantic rel@tionship. Once the OP realized her feelings wouldn't be going in this direction, I think she was right to call it off as it would be wasting both their time. I think she handled herself fine and the bachelor was smarting a bit at rejection after the first date. How would he have handled rejection after the second date?


So the bolded sentence is where we disagree. Though I will say the disagreement is fairly mild. It's a matter of timing. I am firmly of the camp that one can turn down a date or any reason whatsoever, no matter how petty. Don't really like him, hair too long, smokes, has kids, hates cats, eats sushi, doesn't eat sushi, pronounces the letter r in an odd fashion, walks too fast, drives wrong car, eyebrows are crooked,wears too much blue clothing..all fine by me. If you don't want to date the person, it doesn't mater why. Attraction is a very personal thing.

However once you have agreed to the date, you (in my reading of etiquette) are bond by the same social conventions that hold that an RSVP is written in stone (with the safety caveats I listed in my previous post) and you cannot beg off because of a better offer (it doesn't matter if the better offer is a dashingly fabulous long term crush or a desire to eat ice cream on the couch) .  Once you say you will have the date, you should go. 

Shoo

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2010, 01:01:46 PM »
I don't think that once an invitation is accepted that it can never be cancelled, especially in the dating world. 

Just because I say yes to something yesterday does not mean I can't have a change of heart and subsequently decline.  HOW I do it determines whether it is rude or not.  If I call with plenty of notice to the other person, and don't wait until half an hour before we're supposed to meet, then cancelling is not rude.


BettyDraper

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2010, 05:28:44 PM »
Actually it's pretty axiomatic in traditional etiquette that once a social commitment has been made, the only acceptable reasons for backing out are grave illness, death or an invitation to the White House.  As a concession to modernity, a work-related emergency may also be acceptable but "I changed my mind" or "I don't feel like it any more" is not and never has been. 

One needs no reason at all for declining an invitation but breaking a social engagement is considered quite the heinous etiquette sin.  Sometimes people confuse the two concepts. 


DangerMouth

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2010, 05:45:39 PM »
A "henious" social sin would be cancelling the date because she's had a better offer.  Cancelling because she is choosing not to pursue the relationship makes this a 'venial' social sin in my book.

Though I don't actually think he was insulting by calling the OP disingenuous, either. Not because she agreed to a date and then had a change of heart, but because she gave "polite, non personal, non insulting reasons" for doing so. The guy rightly suspected a lack of candor in these reasons. She doesn't owe him her honest exact reasons, but she can't be surprised that he felt she was being evasive.

Wordgeek

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2010, 06:52:45 PM »
Betty's got the traditional view pretty well summed up.  Once we've accepted a social engagement, we're committed to it, barring any emergency.  "I changed my mind" isn't considered an emergency.   ;)

shhh its me

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Re: Was anyone rude here?
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2010, 07:15:21 PM »
  Sorry OP I think you were rude , other then emergency and safety , you can't cancel without being rude. I would also make exceptions for .....


" I tried to say no or I tried to say I'd call him/I'll have to check my calendar for a second date *with no intention of never making one* and he just put so much pressure on me I couldn't figure out how to extract myself without saying yes"  So I e-mailed him the second I got home.

or

I found some new information so disturbing it would offend my sensibilities to ever speak to this person again.  think along the lines of ...I found out they stomp kittens , con little old ladies etc.  Something so bad you would decline to sit near them at a dinner party.
or

They were unfit for a romantic relationship ie married , engaged or even being deceitful about being gay and looking for a "cover girlfriend"

He may have been rude I can't decide if disingenuous is enough in itself .  I don't think a polite "telling off" is always rude.