Author Topic: This is what our doctors want. UPDATE, page 3  (Read 49749 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

shhh its me

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6450
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2010, 06:38:01 PM »
  I think her POV is important here , I don't mean she's right but understand were she's coming from will help you deal with her. I bolded my advise at the bottom but included the thinking........
As sure as you are that breastfeeding is right she is even more sure formula and controlled feeding are right. I speculate for a few reasons:

Doctors used to be much much firmer in their advise

Doctors are always right

Information was much more limited

Think about how god awful controlled feeding sounds , you let a hungry newborn cry for hours and withheld food because you were told convinced this would make your baby heather in the long run.  It's counter instinct to withhold food from an infant it was probable torture for her not to feed her crying child/children but because it was very very important and it was much better this way. Her DOCTOR told her he/she wouldn't tell MIL you must do it this way based on a fad there must of been scientific overwhelming evidence.  MIL might have been chastised for being a foolish , undevoted , lazy mother  if she mentioned the baby seemed hungry before the four hours was up.  

She(MIL) is very very invested in controlled feeding being the right way. If it's wrong she basically tortured herself and her children based of really bad advise she blindly followed most likely against her own instincts.

I didn't breastfeed and still had the same problem with my MIL , the controlled feeding. My ex would go to his mothers with the baby on his day off , ex and I had different days off, and she doggedly refused to let the baby eat more then once ever 4 hours. Really really long story short what worked was saying " the doctor said your grandson needs a special feeding schedule and needs to be feed this way".  That was all it took changing the implication from you were wrong and the new way is right to this is a unique situation that in no way relates to how you raised your child.


 

camlan

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8332
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2010, 06:40:29 PM »

*Before the advent of commercial formulas in the late '50's and early '60's, formula was homemade.  Evaporated milk thinned with water, corn syrup, and I think raw egg yolks, but I could be wrong on that last one.  Nutritionally vastly inferior to breast milk, of course, and that was one reason that babies as young as 2 weeks were started on solids like cereal and mashed banana.

Sorry this is O/T, but I remember my mother making formula in the mid 1960s. She breastfed for 6 months and then switched to homemade formula, right about the same time that the babies were starting to get more solid food (I think they had some sort of very thin cereal at about 3 months). It was water and evaporated milk and corn syrup, but no eggs were involved. She had a special insert for her largest stock pot that held 8 bottles. She'd fill the bottles with the formula, put the caps on and then boil them all to sterilize them. The bottles then got stored in the fridge until needed. Which isn't to say that there weren't versions of formula that did use eggs, but I'm sure that Mom's didn't.

She was also given the controlled feeding schedule with her first child, which I think lasted for about 2 days. She figured if my brother was crying, there was a reason, and she fed him. Surprise! He stopped crying. But she never told her doctor.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn

shhh its me

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6450
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2010, 06:45:14 PM »
P.S.  Elfmama: Yep, you're right on.  She even sent us the schedule DH's pediatrician had given her to use on him.  I almost cried when I saw it.
You should have laughed, "Oh MIL, that chart you sent was a hoot! Isn't is amazing how things have changed in X decades? Thank goodness! I can't imagine treating a newborn that way."

If you've got the energy, you could even bean dip your way into a whole conversation about how much things have changed in the past XX years.


For other things; carseats , eating honey or raw eggs sleeping on tummy vs back etc. I'd go with this but not for controlled feeding.  Controlled feeding was one piece of advise that mothers followed that defied common sense and maternal instinct not just we learned more or the environment changed. 

hellgirl

  • Procrastinator-extraordinaire!
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1759
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2010, 08:27:18 PM »
  I think her POV is important here , I don't mean she's right but understand were she's coming from will help you deal with her. I bolded my advise at the bottom but included the thinking........
As sure as you are that breastfeeding is right she is even more sure formula and controlled feeding are right. I speculate for a few reasons:

Doctors used to be much much firmer in their advise

Doctors are always right

Information was much more limited

Think about how god awful controlled feeding sounds , you let a hungry newborn cry for hours and withheld food because you were told convinced this would make your baby heather in the long run.  It's counter instinct to withhold food from an infant it was probable torture for her not to feed her crying child/children but because it was very very important and it was much better this way. Her DOCTOR told her he/she wouldn't tell MIL you must do it this way based on a fad there must of been scientific overwhelming evidence.  MIL might have been chastised for being a foolish , undevoted , lazy mother  if she mentioned the baby seemed hungry before the four hours was up. 

She(MIL) is very very invested in controlled feeding being the right way. If it's wrong she basically tortured herself and her children based of really bad advise she blindly followed most likely against her own instincts.

I didn't breastfeed and still had the same problem with my MIL , the controlled feeding. My ex would go to his mothers with the baby on his day off , ex and I had different days off, and she doggedly refused to let the baby eat more then once ever 4 hours. Really really long story short what worked was saying " the doctor said your grandson needs a special feeding schedule and needs to be feed this way".  That was all it took changing the implication from you were wrong and the new way is right to this is a unique situation that in no way relates to how you raised your child.

 

Parking my POD right here. This is a touchy situation that she may have a lot of guilt about. And she is almost certainly *very invested* in it being the right way - otherwise she did a horrible thing. Please try to resolve this without implying that, even if you believe it.

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28669
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2010, 08:52:14 PM »
I do think you could spin it that your son has a "special condition," and that this means he has a controlled feeding with a very different schedule. Less that "doctors know better now," and more "Your grandson has a different special need.

You could also say, and I think it should be YOU, and not DH, "MIL, dear, it really bothers me that you won't drop this topic, and that you keep pushing it on us, even when we've told you that we are following *our* doctor's advice. I'll be honest--it makes us worry that we cannot trust you to follow our directions, and makes me very reluctant to leave you alone with the baby, or to allow you to hold him. I would hate for that to happen. So please, accept our decision, and stop bringing it up. So we can trust you. This is our baby, it's our turn to make the decisions."

Kimblee

  • I look good in white....
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6610
  • "Hugs don't go Boom." "They don't? Since when?"
    • My Blog
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2010, 08:56:09 PM »
P.S.  Elfmama: Yep, you're right on.  She even sent us the schedule DH's pediatrician had given her to use on him.  I almost cried when I saw it.
I thought so.  Even women who attempted to breastfeed in that era were given very rigid rules.  (Possibly attempting to sabotage them into 'scientific' formula*, which was anything but!) MIL was told "One side only and at least 4 hours between feedings."  So of course she failed at it and had to put her babies on bottle feedings quite young.  With that kind of schedule, you'd be so engorged that it would be hard for the baby to latch on at all.

*Before the advent of commercial formulas in the late '50's and early '60's, formula was homemade.  Evaporated milk thinned with water, corn syrup, and I think raw egg yolks, but I could be wrong on that last one.  Nutritionally vastly inferior to breast milk, of course, and that was one reason that babies as young as 2 weeks were started on solids like cereal and mashed banana.

Raw eggs and corn syrup? <blinks>
Corn syrup and raw eggs?

That's just. ... I mean, that's,... That's. Um.

Reeeeally?

I don't know why, I had the idea that if BF wasn't possible 'back when', the kid got cow or goat's milk.

Raw eggs and corn syrup. Urgh.


Oh gross.

I know my aunt once told me about a neighbor who couldn't nurse properly and the baby got sick on the "formula" of the day. Aunt's sister had a baby too and would nurse neighbor-lady's baby alongside hers.

these days when i try to imagine this, I get mixed feelings, on the one hand it seems like a very kind thing to do, on the other... I dunno. the thought of nursing someone else's baby kinda squicks me. but to hear Auntie tell it, she tells it as if doing this was the natural, nomral conclusion to come to. I guess compared to raw eggs it was!

kareng57

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12184
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2010, 09:27:05 PM »
P.S.  Elfmama: Yep, you're right on.  She even sent us the schedule DH's pediatrician had given her to use on him.  I almost cried when I saw it.
I thought so.  Even women who attempted to breastfeed in that era were given very rigid rules.  (Possibly attempting to sabotage them into 'scientific' formula*, which was anything but!) MIL was told "One side only and at least 4 hours between feedings."  So of course she failed at it and had to put her babies on bottle feedings quite young.  With that kind of schedule, you'd be so engorged that it would be hard for the baby to latch on at all.

*Before the advent of commercial formulas in the late '50's and early '60's, formula was homemade.  Evaporated milk thinned with water, corn syrup, and I think raw egg yolks, but I could be wrong on that last one.  Nutritionally vastly inferior to breast milk, of course, and that was one reason that babies as young as 2 weeks were started on solids like cereal and mashed banana.

Raw eggs and corn syrup? <blinks>
Corn syrup and raw eggs?

That's just. ... I mean, that's,... That's. Um.

Reeeeally?

I don't know why, I had the idea that if BF wasn't possible 'back when', the kid got cow or goat's milk.

Raw eggs and corn syrup. Urgh.


Oh gross.

I know my aunt once told me about a neighbor who couldn't nurse properly and the baby got sick on the "formula" of the day. Aunt's sister had a baby too and would nurse neighbor-lady's baby alongside hers.

these days when i try to imagine this, I get mixed feelings, on the one hand it seems like a very kind thing to do, on the other... I dunno. the thought of nursing someone else's baby kinda squicks me. but to hear Auntie tell it, she tells it as if doing this was the natural, nomral conclusion to come to. I guess compared to raw eggs it was!

However, it's also true that the vast majority of babies raised on formula (even in the 1950s before commercial formula was readily available) did just fine.  I've never heard of raw eggs being included in the recipe however.

I agree with PPs who have said that it's best not to go into this with a "we know better now" attitude - mothers 40+ years ago were only following their doctors' advice just the same way, after all.  Just leave it at "baby has special digestive needs" and then beandip as much as possible.  And if you continue to breastfeed in a separate room - does she really need to know whether it's breastmilk or formula?  You could just keep saying that Baby needs a very quiet environment.

Kimblee

  • I look good in white....
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6610
  • "Hugs don't go Boom." "They don't? Since when?"
    • My Blog
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2010, 09:31:58 PM »
P.S.  Elfmama: Yep, you're right on.  She even sent us the schedule DH's pediatrician had given her to use on him.  I almost cried when I saw it.
I thought so.  Even women who attempted to breastfeed in that era were given very rigid rules.  (Possibly attempting to sabotage them into 'scientific' formula*, which was anything but!) MIL was told "One side only and at least 4 hours between feedings."  So of course she failed at it and had to put her babies on bottle feedings quite young.  With that kind of schedule, you'd be so engorged that it would be hard for the baby to latch on at all.

*Before the advent of commercial formulas in the late '50's and early '60's, formula was homemade.  Evaporated milk thinned with water, corn syrup, and I think raw egg yolks, but I could be wrong on that last one.  Nutritionally vastly inferior to breast milk, of course, and that was one reason that babies as young as 2 weeks were started on solids like cereal and mashed banana.

Raw eggs and corn syrup? <blinks>
Corn syrup and raw eggs?

That's just. ... I mean, that's,... That's. Um.

Reeeeally?

I don't know why, I had the idea that if BF wasn't possible 'back when', the kid got cow or goat's milk.

Raw eggs and corn syrup. Urgh.


Oh gross.

I know my aunt once told me about a neighbor who couldn't nurse properly and the baby got sick on the "formula" of the day. Aunt's sister had a baby too and would nurse neighbor-lady's baby alongside hers.

these days when i try to imagine this, I get mixed feelings, on the one hand it seems like a very kind thing to do, on the other... I dunno. the thought of nursing someone else's baby kinda squicks me. but to hear Auntie tell it, she tells it as if doing this was the natural, nomral conclusion to come to. I guess compared to raw eggs it was!

However, it's also true that the vast majority of babies raised on formula (even in the 1950s before commercial formula was readily available) did just fine.  I've never heard of raw eggs being included in the recipe however.

I agree with PPs who have said that it's best not to go into this with a "we know better now" attitude - mothers 40+ years ago were only following their doctors' advice just the same way, after all.  Just leave it at "baby has special digestive needs" and then beandip as much as possible.  And if you continue to breastfeed in a separate room - does she really need to know whether it's breastmilk or formula?  You could just keep saying that Baby needs a very quiet environment.

Well obviously. After all, there's lots of healthy folks to proove how nicely the formula did.  ;D

But in this baby's case, it needed something diffrent.

DangerMouth

  • Work as if you were in the early days of a better nation.
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7482
  • Everybody Gets Ice Cream!
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2010, 09:45:12 PM »
P.S.  Elfmama: Yep, you're right on.  She even sent us the schedule DH's pediatrician had given her to use on him.  I almost cried when I saw it.
I thought so.  Even women who attempted to breastfeed in that era were given very rigid rules.  (Possibly attempting to sabotage them into 'scientific' formula*, which was anything but!) MIL was told "One side only and at least 4 hours between feedings."  So of course she failed at it and had to put her babies on bottle feedings quite young.  With that kind of schedule, you'd be so engorged that it would be hard for the baby to latch on at all.

*Before the advent of commercial formulas in the late '50's and early '60's, formula was homemade.  Evaporated milk thinned with water, corn syrup, and I think raw egg yolks, but I could be wrong on that last one.  Nutritionally vastly inferior to breast milk, of course, and that was one reason that babies as young as 2 weeks were started on solids like cereal and mashed banana.

Raw eggs and corn syrup? <blinks>
Corn syrup and raw eggs?

That's just. ... I mean, that's,... That's. Um.

Reeeeally?

I don't know why, I had the idea that if BF wasn't possible 'back when', the kid got cow or goat's milk.

Raw eggs and corn syrup. Urgh.


Oh gross.

I know my aunt once told me about a neighbor who couldn't nurse properly and the baby got sick on the "formula" of the day. Aunt's sister had a baby too and would nurse neighbor-lady's baby alongside hers.

these days when i try to imagine this, I get mixed feelings, on the one hand it seems like a very kind thing to do, on the other... I dunno. the thought of nursing someone else's baby kinda squicks me. but to hear Auntie tell it, she tells it as if doing this was the natural, nomral conclusion to come to. I guess compared to raw eggs it was!

Well, 'wet nurses' used to be perfectly normal for those who couldn't nurse their own (and du rigueur for ladies of a certain class, mostly in Britain, that I'm aware of)

kareng57

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12184
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2010, 09:58:42 PM »
P.S.  Elfmama: Yep, you're right on.  She even sent us the schedule DH's pediatrician had given her to use on him.  I almost cried when I saw it.
I thought so.  Even women who attempted to breastfeed in that era were given very rigid rules.  (Possibly attempting to sabotage them into 'scientific' formula*, which was anything but!) MIL was told "One side only and at least 4 hours between feedings."  So of course she failed at it and had to put her babies on bottle feedings quite young.  With that kind of schedule, you'd be so engorged that it would be hard for the baby to latch on at all.

*Before the advent of commercial formulas in the late '50's and early '60's, formula was homemade.  Evaporated milk thinned with water, corn syrup, and I think raw egg yolks, but I could be wrong on that last one.  Nutritionally vastly inferior to breast milk, of course, and that was one reason that babies as young as 2 weeks were started on solids like cereal and mashed banana.

Raw eggs and corn syrup? <blinks>
Corn syrup and raw eggs?

That's just. ... I mean, that's,... That's. Um.

Reeeeally?

I don't know why, I had the idea that if BF wasn't possible 'back when', the kid got cow or goat's milk.

Raw eggs and corn syrup. Urgh.


Oh gross.

I know my aunt once told me about a neighbor who couldn't nurse properly and the baby got sick on the "formula" of the day. Aunt's sister had a baby too and would nurse neighbor-lady's baby alongside hers.

these days when i try to imagine this, I get mixed feelings, on the one hand it seems like a very kind thing to do, on the other... I dunno. the thought of nursing someone else's baby kinda squicks me. but to hear Auntie tell it, she tells it as if doing this was the natural, nomral conclusion to come to. I guess compared to raw eggs it was!

Well, 'wet nurses' used to be perfectly normal for those who couldn't nurse their own (and du rigueur for ladies of a certain class, mostly in Britain, that I'm aware of)

That's true.  I remember an anecdote about Queen Victoria, who of course never breastfed her own children.  However, her daughters were quite progressive.  Princess Alice was a trained nurse, for example.  Anyway, one day when Princess Victoria was ill, Alice was breastfeeding Victoria's child in her place (or maybe it was the other way around).  Victoria was of course horrified when she found out, and apparently the fact that one of the royal cows was named Alice soon afterwards might not have been a complete coincidence. :)

As you say, it was likely very common in past generations.  There was the sad fact that up until about 80 years ago, many women did die in childbirth, or babies might be abandoned very soon after birth - and their only chance of survival was to find another nursing mother in the community.

Elfmama

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5707
  • Is it Spring yet?
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2010, 10:07:47 PM »
The raw egg yolks in the formula was a fuzzy memory from a book read years ago.  Obviously, 55 years ago when my most intimate contact with formula happened, I was unaware of what that stuff in the bottle incorporated.

I remember a scene in The Egg and I, where the writer contrasts her "backward" country neighbors' breastfed babies (all fat and pasty and sickly from poor feeding, poor things) with her own happy, healthy, scientifically fed daughter.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I don't go crazy.  I AM crazy.  I sometimes go normal. 
Please make a note of this for future reference.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Ms Aspasia

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 559
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2010, 06:14:42 AM »
Perhaps this link might be helpful: http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/dealing.html
It's about dealing with unwanted criticism about breastfeeding.

lilihob

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 159
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2010, 02:13:12 PM »
My daughter's godfather, was breastfeed by my grandmother, his mother just couldn't make enough milk, so my avozinha( who'd successfully breastfed 5 babies) just fed my dad and him as twins, (1 month age difference).
Saved his life, dad calls him his "milk brother".
My mum was bullied out of breastfeeding by her Dr., supposedly her milk was too weak.
 I breastfed, and anytime she mentioned the "how do you know she's getting enough?", or "is it strong enough for her?".
I just shut her down with, "I take after dad's mum", and a big smile.

HeebyJeebyLeebee

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5019
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2010, 02:16:10 PM »
Strong enough?  I'm really confused by that.  It's not like breastmilk comes in whole, 2%, 1%, and skim.  How cold breastmilk be weak?  I get not producing enough, but weak?  ???
I am grateful for the friends I have made on EHell and everything I have learned, but it is time I move on.

MrsJWine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8743
  • I have an excessive fondness for parentheses.
    • Wallydraigle
Re: This is what our doctors want.
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2010, 02:17:32 PM »
Strong enough?  I'm really confused by that.  It's not like breastmilk comes in whole, 2%, 1%, and skim.  How cold breastmilk be weak?  I get not producing enough, but weak?  ???

I think it might be because breastfed babies tend to be skinnier past about 6 months.  Conclusion:  breast milk is not hearty enough to keep baby as plump as formula.


I have a blog.  I hate that word.


Utah