Font Colors??

[blue2000]

ydpubs makes a good point. Too many rules and the place gets unfriendly.

I've noticed a few other things about the 'culture' here, just browsing aroung this am: Posters mostly comment 'below' the quoted text, instead of above it, and mostly, posters don't sign their threads. In both of these instances, enough people do it one way that someone doing it differently is enough to make me notice. (It doesn't bother me, maybe it's driving someone else up a wall, I don't know.)

So maybe I'll just take it to the "what little things drive you nuts" thread the next time someone posts in purple

LOL! And I quite like purple. I find it soothing on the eyes. Good thing I'm way too lazy to fiddle with my posts, hmm?

[RainhaDoTexugo]

I've never seen a poster here chided for spelling, typos or grammar.

Well, to be fair, the paragraph break thing is a grammar issue, and is frequently brought up.  I don't think I've really seen specific posters chided about spelling, typos, or grammar, but it's certainly brought up in a general sense quite often, and I'm sure that the posters who struggle with spelling, typos, or grammar are fully aware that they're the ones being referenced.  I do have some faint memory of, once or twice, posters being called out on grammar or something within a thread, but it's a very faint memory, and if it happened, it was a long time ago, so I don't know how I could search for it.

I agree with Dindrane that there's a place for that kind of tip, and I'd appreciate a heads up if I was doing something easy to change that made my posts difficult to read.  I think the biggest problem is when more than one person does it.  In the thread where I first saw Kai post (I'm having trouble remembering which one it was, unfortunately), someone posted asking her to change the font, so she changed the color, then that first person came back, or maybe a second person came along and said it was still hard to read because of the centering.  That post totally disregarded Kai's response about why she centered it, and in fact was phrased as if she'd never posted at all.  I think had there been some acknowledgment, and it hadn't been so terse, it wouldn't have struck me as so harsh.  Then, a few posts later, someone else pops up and posts something about how it's hard to read when her text is formatted the way it is, even though that conversation had already happened.  It was only two or three people, but the way it was done, it honestly did seem like dogpiling to me.  If a poster has already nicely pointed it out, and the poster has responded in some way that shows that she understands and is attempting to fix it, what purpose does it serve to post about it again?  I know I'd feel incredibly unwelcome.

The other problem is that those helpful posts often come off as sounding very terse.  I'm sure it's not intentional, but when your whole post is one quick, minimalist sentence telling someone to change something, it feels a bit harsh.  I'm sure there's some way to soften it to make it seem more welcoming.

[Skoffin]

I've noticed quite a few people make comments to others because their grammer isnt right,or they arent using enough paragraphs or sentance breaks and other little silly things because THEY have a problem with it. Nobody else makes a comment. Just them. Not everybody is going to have the same writing style as you,or education or even desire to have to write the same as you just because you prefer it that way. It feels like the forum police at times and is really rude and disruptive to some posts . Kai has been really good about working with everybody for a happy medium and even thats not enough. She isnt going to please all of you and thats okay. She shouldnt be expected too.

Can you please point out where anyone here has commented on someones grammar in a negative way?  I've never seen that.

I myself have seen quite a few disparaging remarks on other peoples posts, particularly on the Ehell blog itself. Usually variations of the LW giving too much information, too little information, poor spelling, mixing up a pseudonym, putting too much emphasis on something and so forth.

I agree with posters that it is fine, and perhaps even helpful, to let someone know that their posts are a bit hard to read and it may result in less responses. The problem lies when it comes across in a disrespectful manner.

The blog and the forum are two very different places, with a different set of rules, if I recall correctly.  

I don't think it's fair to come here, the forum, and make comments about what people do/say on the blog as if it's happening here, when it's not.  

I have no problem with someone saying that not enough information has been given.  I think it's prudent actually, to say that more information is needed before giving advice.  

As far as anyone being disparaging (here), re:, giving too much information, commenting on someones poor spelling or grammar, mixing up a pseudonym, putting too much emphasis on something and so forth, can you please point out where that has happened?  I've not seen that here and I'm curious where you have.

I can't speak for what the other poster has seen, I just thought I would add that I have also noticed similar around the website. (Also to clarify: I actually meant the Ehell mainpage, sorry for the confusion)
I didn't mean to suggest that I see a lot of griping here on the forums, rather that I've noticed that sort of behaviour in particular in the comments sections of submitted stories. Although I wasn't aware that it counted as two separate entities, I see a lot of the same people between both areas so I figured it wasn't.

I also have no problem with someone pointing out not enough information was provided, it's only when it comes across as snarky that it becomes an issue. I've seen comments essentially insulting a submitter for either talking too much, or not giving enough. It's a bit hard to find the happy medium sometimes.

As for the pseudonyms, noticing the mix up is not the problem. However there was at least one occasion where I have seen someone be rude to the submitter for mixing them.
I have no issue with someone politely pointing out a problem with a post, it's only when it's done with rude tones to it.

[DangerMouth]

I've never seen a poster here chided for spelling, typos or grammar.

Well, to be fair, the paragraph break thing is a grammar issue, and is frequently brought up.  I don't think I've really seen specific posters chided about spelling, typos, or grammar, but it's certainly brought up in a general sense quite often, and I'm sure that the posters who struggle with spelling, typos, or grammar are fully aware that they're the ones being referenced.  I do have some faint memory of, once or twice, posters being called out on grammar or something within a thread, but it's a very faint memory, and if it happened, it was a long time ago, so I don't know how I could search for it.

I agree with Dindrane that there's a place for that kind of tip, and I'd appreciate a heads up if I was doing something easy to change that made my posts difficult to read.  I think the biggest problem is when more than one person does it.  In the thread where I first saw Kai post (I'm having trouble remembering which one it was, unfortunately), someone posted asking her to change the font, so she changed the color, then that first person came back, or maybe a second person came along and said it was still hard to read because of the centering.  That post totally disregarded Kai's response about why she centered it, and in fact was phrased as if she'd never posted at all.  I think had there been some acknowledgment, and it hadn't been so terse, it wouldn't have struck me as so harsh.  Then, a few posts later, someone else pops up and posts something about how it's hard to read when her text is formatted the way it is, even though that conversation had already happened.  It was only two or three people, but the way it was done, it honestly did seem like dogpiling to me.  If a poster has already nicely pointed it out, and the poster has responded in some way that shows that she understands and is attempting to fix it, what purpose does it serve to post about it again?  I know I'd feel incredibly unwelcome.

The other problem is that those helpful posts often come off as sounding very terse.  I'm sure it's not intentional, but when your whole post is one quick, minimalist sentence telling someone to change something, it feels a bit harsh.  I'm sure there's some way to soften it to make it seem more welcoming.

Oh, yeah, line breaks. No, I wasn't considering that a grammar issue, but I suppose it is. So you're right, posters often do get asked to 'fix' a solid wall of text post. And yes, the poster doing it can sometimes be terse about it.

As to the issue of another poster jumping in, I see it more as support for the first person to say something. Is one person just a crank? But if there's more general agreement, that's more information. In that thread, IIRC, Kai changed her style three times, from one unreadable format to another. So the posters still bringing it up were saying, 'still doesn't work for me'.

As to ignoring the reasons, if someone has just said that they don't/won't/can't read a post because it's unreadable to them in that format, then there's no reason for them to know what that reason was, if it was explained to them in a post with the problematical formatting.

[ncgal]

I don't want that to sound SS ('Oh, my poor sensitive eeeeeeyes! They trump Kai's right to post the way she wants!').

Actually I think sensitive eyesight is a perfectly good reason to trump someone else's wishes to post differently and that is why I am trying to compromise in a way to suit both my wishes but everyone else's as well. I certainly do not want to be the cause of someone's eye strain.

I'm using a newly installed font, that unless you also have installed, should not show up much differently from the default. I've checked it with a few other posters (thank you especially to Rain and Skoffin) and have been assured that it is fine but will run it here as well to see if anyone else has any issue with it. Is this okay?

I'm also testing the name at the bottom idea to see if that suits.

*][Kai][*

the above to me is much much easier on the eyes to read then the color fonts. Actually, that type of font is easier to read then what I am writing myself.   Thanks!

[Scuba_Dog]

As to the issue of another poster jumping in, I see it more as support for the first person to say something. Is one person just a crank? But if there's more general agreement, that's more information. In that thread, IIRC, Kai changed her style three times, from one unreadable format to another. So the posters still bringing it up were saying, 'still doesn't work for me'.

That was how I saw it, too.  Not that they were trying to be difficult, but they were working toward a solution.  Kai seemed willing to try different things also (thank you, Kai  ) and it all worked out in the end.

As far as I know, Kai is the only person on the forum who posts in something other than the default format.  I think it's perfectly understandable that there was a bit of a bump in the road because of it.  

eta:  I'm not of the opinion that it's "chiding" to ask someone to put paragraph breaks in their posts.  To me, it's like asking someone to slow down so I can understand what they are saying if they've come to me for advice in real-life.  I'm only doing it because I want to help the best I can, not because I'm trying to chide them.

[RainhaDoTexugo]

Oh, yeah, line breaks. No, I wasn't considering that a grammar issue, but I suppose it is. So you're right, posters often do get asked to 'fix' a solid wall of text post. And yes, the poster doing it can sometimes be terse about it.

That's really the only problem I have with it.  The request is fine, I just think posters could be more careful with their tone.

As to the issue of another poster jumping in, I see it more as support for the first person to say something. Is one person just a crank? But if there's more general agreement, that's more information. In that thread, IIRC, Kai changed her style three times, from one unreadable format to another. So the posters still bringing it up were saying, 'still doesn't work for me'.

If they were saying "still doesn't work for me," I'd have less of an issue with it.  The last post about it in the thread I saw wasn't anything like "sorry, I know you tried, but it's still hard to read."  It wasn't even "sorry, I agree with Soandso, I'm still having trouble."  The post really, honestly, seemed like it had been written immediately upon finding Kai's first post in that thread, before the poster even finished reading the other responses.  It wasn't phrased as support, it was phrased as if it was the first post on that topic.  Maybe this belongs in the "reading the thread" thread instead

As to ignoring the reasons, if someone has just said that they don't/won't/can't read a post because it's unreadable to them in that format, then there's no reason for them to know what that reason was, if it was explained to them in a post with the problematical formatting.

I'm a little confused by what you mean here.  Are you saying that if Kai explained her reasoning in a post with centering, so it was still hard to read, then the correcter can't know what the reason is?  Because frankly, it was a short post, so if you're going to go to the trouble of correcting a poster, and she's clearly responded to you (as you can see by the color change), I think you owe it to them to struggle through three lines of centered text, so you can respond, or hit the quote button so that little bit of text shows up in your reply screen and read it there.  If it was a long post, or simply wasn't possible to read, I'd have more sympathy.  At the very least, if you can't read it, you can probably deduce that if one thing changed and one thing didn't, the poster may have addressed that, and respond accordingly.  

I'm not saying that people can't make these requests of each other (though I'm more inclined to just skip stuff I don't want to decipher), just that they should think carefully about how they're expressing themselves, and how unwelcoming they can seem, to someone new to the forum.  It's important to keep in mind that lots of forums aren't as friendly as ehell, so "friendly request" may not be the default assumption a new user makes, when she sees a request telling her to change.  All this post correction wasn't going on when I joined, and I'm glad it wasn't, because it may well have turned me off the forum altogether.

As far as I know, Kai is the only person on the forum who posts in something other than the default format.  I think it's perfectly understandable that there was a bit of a bump in the road because of it. 

Neysalmd, a long time poster, has been posting in turquoise for as long as I can remember.  I don't recall anyone ever mentioning a problem with it, but I don't exactly follow her around the forum to check.

[Scuba_Dog]

As far as I know, Kai is the only person on the forum who posts in something other than the default format.  I think it's perfectly understandable that there was a bit of a bump in the road because of it. 

Neysalmd, a long time poster, has been posting in turquoise for as long as I can remember.  I don't recall anyone ever mentioning a problem with it, but I don't exactly follow her around the forum to check.

Ok, so one other person.   

My point isn't that there is anything wrong with it, just that I think it's reasonable and understandable that it caused a blip.

[RainhaDoTexugo]

As far as I know, Kai is the only person on the forum who posts in something other than the default format.  I think it's perfectly understandable that there was a bit of a bump in the road because of it. 

Neysalmd, a long time poster, has been posting in turquoise for as long as I can remember.  I don't recall anyone ever mentioning a problem with it, but I don't exactly follow her around the forum to check.

Ok, so one other person.   

My point isn't that there is anything wrong with it, just that I think it's reasonable and understandable that it caused a blip.

Oh, I agree, there was nothing wrong with bringing it up, and it doesn't sound like Kai had a problem with the requests themselves, either.  I just have a big problem with the terseness that's often used.

[DangerMouth]

RainhaDoTexugo (not quoting that whole thing )

You may be right about the 'not reading the thread' comment

As to the rest, I saw that thread with the changing formats, and no I didn't read the posts there with the formatting. I don't think I 'owe' it to anyone to strain my eyes.

Ticia said in that thread that we were free to start another thread to debate the etiquette of using different colors, etc.

So here's my take on the etiquette in general: It seems a little impolite to me. Not hugely rude, not offensive, nothing to lose sleep over. I just don't get that 'it makes it easier for me to find my posts' is a good enough reason to have one person's post stand out like a beacon on every thread that poster particpates in.

Sometimes people post from their phones. Some people find it harder to use caps and correct punction when trying to type on an keyboard the size of of postage stamp. This is a perfectly good reason for having a less than correctly composed post. It just seems different than someone saying 'it makes it easier for me' if they ignore that it makes it harder for others.

I don't think I've ever seen the turquoise poster, but if they've been here longer than I, I'd probably feel that it wasn't my place to say anything

[RainhaDoTexugo]

DangerMouth, I think we probably saw different threads.  Ticia never stepped in for the one I saw.  If I could remember which one I saw it in, I'd link to it, but I have no idea which thread it was.

The key, here, is that Kai never said that "it makes it easier for me to find my posts" was a good enough reason to have her posts stand out like a beacon.  In fact, she's addressed the concerns head on, said she was sorry that it was a problem, and experimented with different things.  On top of what's happened in public, here in the thread, she's been PMing with me and at least one other poster, experimenting with different options to see if she could find a solution that fits everyone.  Saying "it's easier for me, so you guys can just deal" would be rude, but saying "this is why I do this, but I see that it's a problem for some other people, so lets try to find a solution everyone is happy with" is an entirely different thing.  Some people are acting like she's gone with the "just deal with it" response, when actually she's been trying hard to find an answer.  She's even gone back and edited previous posts, so that if someone comes across them, they'll be readable.  I just don't get the accusations that have come up about snowflake behavior - snowflakes don't go to all this effort to fix a problem.

And yeah, I'm grateful that people have ignored my typos when I post from my phone.  There's no way to edit from the mobile site, and sometimes they slip past me before I post

[aventurine]

For me, personally, if you're going to post in Bleeding Cowboy, Kai, I won't be able to read it.  I gave it a good ol' college try here, wanting to be able to follow this interesting thread, but it shreds my head and I can't do it. 

BC is one of my favorite fonts, but it really isn't reader-friendly for long blocks, and I'm afraid I'm not going to uninstall it just so I can read your posts.

Like a PP, I really hope this trend doesn't catch on. 

[Ticia]

We have a blog?

The link is at the top of your page. Ceremonies and Civility Blog (Wedding).

There is the Ceremonies and Civility Blog, but there is also the etiquettehell.com blog. Basically EhellDame isn't doing biannual updates anymore, now she posts one story every day, Monday through Thursday to the blog, and on Friday she does "Feel Good Friday" posts, (which are usually videos) meant to bring a smile to your face.

[sparksals]

For me, personally, if you're going to post in Bleeding Cowboy, Kai, I won't be able to read it.  I gave it a good ol' college try here, wanting to be able to follow this interesting thread, but it shreds my head and I can't do it.  

BC is one of my favorite fonts, but it really isn't reader-friendly for long blocks, and I'm afraid I'm not going to uninstall it just so I can read your posts.

Like a PP, I really hope this trend doesn't catch on.  

I'm afraid, I'm with AV.  While the lack of colour is very helpful, the text size is  HUGE! on my monitor.  Not sure it looks like that on anyone else's?  A whole long post like that?  Not for my eyes, I'm afraid.  

I'm perfectly content skipping posts as well as the quote trees containing them.  It's just too dizzying to read.   

I have not seen the turquoise posts either.  

[RainhaDoTexugo]

For me, personally, if you're going to post in Bleeding Cowboy, Kai, I won't be able to read it.  I gave it a good ol' college try here, wanting to be able to follow this interesting thread, but it shreds my head and I can't do it. 

BC is one of my favorite fonts, but it really isn't reader-friendly for long blocks, and I'm afraid I'm not going to uninstall it just so I can read your posts.

Like a PP, I really hope this trend doesn't catch on. 

I'm afraid, I'm with AV.  While the lack of colour is very helpful, the text size is  HUGE! on my monitor.  Not sure it looks like that on anyone else's?  A whole long post like that?  Not for my eyes, I'm afraid. 

I'm perfectly content skipping posts. 

I have not seen the turquoise posts either. 

That's one of the things she and I tried to figure out over PM.  If you haven't downloaded the fancy font, it defaults to a basic font, which was way small when she posted so that the fancy font was a normal size.  At the size it is now, it looks normal if you don't have the font, but I guess it's pretty big if you do have the font.

I know she said she probably wouldn't be back to the thread, but I'm sure Kai would be willing to try out any other suggested solutions, and get some feedback if they work in PM trials.