Author Topic: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.  (Read 4731 times)

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Micah

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2010, 08:04:51 AM »
There's a story about a Victorian gentleman who was out walking with a friend. At one point they entered a building at same time as a woman of questionable reputation. The gentleman held the door for her. When she'd gone through his friend said, "Why did you hold the door for her? She's no lady." The gentleman replied, "It doesn't matter whether or not she's a lady...I am a gentleman."

It shouldn't matter how someone acts or what their reputation is. How classy you are is determined by YOUR behavior, not theirs. (Generic you)

And I find the term bogan to be quite offensive. I would not want myself or anyone I care about to be referred to as one. A bogan is generally considered to be someone completely lacking in class, manners, education and social graces. Or at least that's what it means where I'm from.
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lady_disdain

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2010, 09:23:30 AM »
Like Any Other Candidate wrote:

"I don't find the term 'bogan' nearly as offensive as a rude racial name."

The acid test is to consider whether you could call anyone you don't know a bogan without that person being offended.  Is it something you'd call a friend, or your mother, or someone you respect?  If not, then it's it's reasonable to consider it derogatory, and therefore rude to use the term to describe a stranger.  "Less offensive" isn't "unoffensive".

Virg

I see your point. However, I'm afraid I'm rather in the camp that says celebrtities are fair game. They are in the public eye, and if all criticism and description of them was polite, then there would be no reporting on them of any kind. Also, I see nothing wrong with showing more respect to some people than to others, based on behaviour. Respect is earned, not a given.

Which would be a good thing - why do people feel it is all right, fun even, to gossip about celebrity in a way they never would about their acquaintances, is beyond me.

CherryRipe

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2010, 09:52:22 AM »
Why stop there?  Why not do it "Wheel of Fortune" style, have people "buy vowels" (and I guess consonants too, but they'd cost less), and reveal the baby's name one letter at a time?

Granny Takes a Trip

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2010, 10:10:21 AM »
Like Any Other Candidate wrote:

"I don't find the term 'bogan' nearly as offensive as a rude racial name."

The acid test is to consider whether you could call anyone you don't know a bogan without that person being offended.  Is it something you'd call a friend, or your mother, or someone you respect?  If not, then it's it's reasonable to consider it derogatory, and therefore rude to use the term to describe a stranger.  "Less offensive" isn't "unoffensive".

Virg

I see your point. However, I'm afraid I'm rather in the camp that says celebrtities are fair game. They are in the public eye, and if all criticism and description of them was polite, then there would be no reporting on them of any kind. Also, I see nothing wrong with showing more respect to some people than to others, based on behaviour. Respect is earned, not a given.

Which would be a good thing - why do people feel it is all right, fun even, to gossip about celebrity in a way they never would about their acquaintances, is beyond me.

Unfortunately, a lot of these 'celebrities' would not survive at all without constant gossip. In the UK, where I am, there is a huge group of people who are famous (and rich!) for nothing at all except being on some reality show. Therefore, their public life is up for grabs, and to a certain extent, so is their private life. If they don't like it, they should have thought of that before signing up to endless magazine deals, promotions, etc. A lot of them do whine 'I have no priiiiiivate life' Cry me a river! Their job is to be gossiped about. Without the gossip trade, 99% of them would be complete nonentities. /Climbs off soapbox.

Sorry, it's a sore spot for me. These people can't have it both ways.
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Granny Takes a Trip

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2010, 10:15:49 AM »
There's a story about a Victorian gentleman who was out walking with a friend. At one point they entered a building at same time as a woman of questionable reputation. The gentleman held the door for her. When she'd gone through his friend said, "Why did you hold the door for her? She's no lady." The gentleman replied, "It doesn't matter whether or not she's a lady...I am a gentleman."

It shouldn't matter how someone acts or what their reputation is. How classy you are is determined by YOUR behavior, not theirs. (Generic you)

And I find the term bogan to be quite offensive. I would not want myself or anyone I care about to be referred to as one. A bogan is generally considered to be someone completely lacking in class, manners, education and social graces. Or at least that's what it means where I'm from.

Again, if that is what someone is, that is what they are. If there is a rule about using such words on this site, fine. I certainly would not want to offend anyone on here. But that is a slightly seperate issue from wheter the word is bad or not in itself. I'm firmly on the side of 'desciptive' rather than rude. I know some (IRL as well as here) disagree with me, and some others don't. I think it is an 'agree to disagree' thing.

ETA. I know for a lot of people, terms like 'chav' and 'bogan' carry classist connotations. I do not use 'chav' to describe people along class lines- not all chavs are lower class, by any means. It has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with behaviour.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 10:21:27 AM by Like Any Other Candidate »
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Scuba_Dog

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2010, 10:24:10 AM »
Like Any Other Candidate wrote:

"I don't find the term 'bogan' nearly as offensive as a rude racial name."

The acid test is to consider whether you could call anyone you don't know a bogan without that person being offended.  Is it something you'd call a friend, or your mother, or someone you respect?  If not, then it's it's reasonable to consider it derogatory, and therefore rude to use the term to describe a stranger.  "Less offensive" isn't "unoffensive".

Virg

I see your point. However, I'm afraid I'm rather in the camp that says celebrtities are fair game. They are in the public eye, and if all criticism and description of them was polite, then there would be no reporting on them of any kind. Also, I see nothing wrong with showing more respect to some people than to others, based on behaviour. Respect is earned, not a given.

Which would be a good thing - why do people feel it is all right, fun even, to gossip about celebrity in a way they never would about their acquaintances, is beyond me.

Unfortunately, a lot of these 'celebrities' would not survive at all without constant gossip. In the UK, where I am, there is a huge group of people who are famous (and rich!) for nothing at all except being on some reality show. Therefore, their public life is up for grabs, and to a certain extent, so is their private life. If they don't like it, they should have thought of that before signing up to endless magazine deals, promotions, etc. A lot of them do whine 'I have no priiiiiivate life' Cry me a river! Their job is to be gossiped about. Without the gossip trade, 99% of them would be complete nonentities. /Climbs off soapbox.

Sorry, it's a sore spot for me. These people can't have it both ways.

LAC,  I think (for me anyway) the point is that here, on an etiquette forum, we shouldn't take our comments on the couples percieved etiquette breech to a more personal level with that type of name calling or insults.  It doesn't make us look much better than them.  Actually, IMO, it makes us look worse.  We are on an etiquette forum, we should know better.  :)

If you take a moment to look back at other threads in this area and others, you will see that there is an immediate lockdown of threads that devolve into gossip and insults about the celebrity in question. 




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Granny Takes a Trip

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2010, 10:34:08 AM »
Like Any Other Candidate wrote:

"I don't find the term 'bogan' nearly as offensive as a rude racial name."

The acid test is to consider whether you could call anyone you don't know a bogan without that person being offended.  Is it something you'd call a friend, or your mother, or someone you respect?  If not, then it's it's reasonable to consider it derogatory, and therefore rude to use the term to describe a stranger.  "Less offensive" isn't "unoffensive".

Virg

I see your point. However, I'm afraid I'm rather in the camp that says celebrtities are fair game. They are in the public eye, and if all criticism and description of them was polite, then there would be no reporting on them of any kind. Also, I see nothing wrong with showing more respect to some people than to others, based on behaviour. Respect is earned, not a given.

Which would be a good thing - why do people feel it is all right, fun even, to gossip about celebrity in a way they never would about their acquaintances, is beyond me.

Unfortunately, a lot of these 'celebrities' would not survive at all without constant gossip. In the UK, where I am, there is a huge group of people who are famous (and rich!) for nothing at all except being on some reality show. Therefore, their public life is up for grabs, and to a certain extent, so is their private life. If they don't like it, they should have thought of that before signing up to endless magazine deals, promotions, etc. A lot of them do whine 'I have no priiiiiivate life' Cry me a river! Their job is to be gossiped about. Without the gossip trade, 99% of them would be complete nonentities. /Climbs off soapbox.

Sorry, it's a sore spot for me. These people can't have it both ways.

LAC,  I think (for me anyway) the point is that here, on an etiquette forum, we shouldn't take our comments on the couples percieved etiquette breech to a more personal level with that type of name calling or insults.  It doesn't make us look much better than them.  Actually, IMO, it makes us look worse.  We are on an etiquette forum, we should know better.  :)

If you take a moment to look back at other threads in this area and others, you will see that there is an immediate lockdown of threads that devolve into gossip and insults about the celebrity in question. 






I agree with that :) I do know what you mean, I guess I was just speaking more generally. I do agree that namecalling is bad in general, and it can be easy to de-humanise celebrities a bit.
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Dissolve in their own virtues and recede.

Sharnita

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2010, 11:50:48 AM »
Like Any Other Candidate wrote:

"I don't find the term 'bogan' nearly as offensive as a rude racial name."

The acid test is to consider whether you could call anyone you don't know a bogan without that person being offended.  Is it something you'd call a friend, or your mother, or someone you respect?  If not, then it's it's reasonable to consider it derogatory, and therefore rude to use the term to describe a stranger.  "Less offensive" isn't "unoffensive".

Virg

pod

petal

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2010, 06:52:34 AM »
theres a morning show here in australia called  "Sunrise".  they didnt like the idea that bec and lleyton made money off the babys  name  (like the rest of us too)

so one bright spark got the idea  to find out the bubs name and the hosts of the show let everyone know.

love it !!!!

Sharnita

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2010, 07:06:28 AM »
theres a morning show here in australia called  "Sunrise".  they didnt like the idea that bec and lleyton made money off the babys  name  (like the rest of us too)

so one bright spark got the idea  to find out the bubs name and the hosts of the show let everyone know.

love it !!!!

honestly, the fact that they are giving so much attention to this at all makes the whole thing possible in the first place.  If everybody shrugged and said "good luck with that" and nobody gave it any further attention then how far would it have gone?  It's like they resent them for the attention hogging so they give them attention.

petal

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2010, 07:15:02 AM »
i dont see it that way. 

Lauren

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2010, 01:02:08 PM »
Quote
ETA. I know for a lot of people, terms like 'chav' and 'bogan' carry classist connotations.

POD.

I get called a bogan all the time. Why? Purely because of the area I grew up in. Nothing to do with how I act, speak or anything. I even had a customer at work (both from Sydney) who when I said where I grew up went 'Oh so it wasn't enough to be a Sydney Westie, you had to become a REAL westie by moving here!' (westie has the same conotation as bogan, but is very much a Sydney term) I find it incredibly offensive.

kglory

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2010, 12:37:50 AM »
There's a story about a Victorian gentleman who was out walking with a friend. At one point they entered a building at same time as a woman of questionable reputation. The gentleman held the door for her. When she'd gone through his friend said, "Why did you hold the door for her? She's no lady." The gentleman replied, "It doesn't matter whether or not she's a lady...I am a gentleman."

It shouldn't matter how someone acts or what their reputation is. How classy you are is determined by YOUR behavior, not theirs. (Generic you)

And I find the term bogan to be quite offensive. I would not want myself or anyone I care about to be referred to as one. A bogan is generally considered to be someone completely lacking in class, manners, education and social graces. Or at least that's what it means where I'm from.

Again, if that is what someone is, that is what they are. If there is a rule about using such words on this site, fine. I certainly would not want to offend anyone on here. But that is a slightly seperate issue from wheter the word is bad or not in itself. I'm firmly on the side of 'desciptive' rather than rude. I know some (IRL as well as here) disagree with me, and some others don't. I think it is an 'agree to disagree' thing.

ETA. I know for a lot of people, terms like 'chav' and 'bogan' carry classist connotations. I do not use 'chav' to describe people along class lines- not all chavs are lower class, by any means. It has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with behaviour.

If that is the case, I'd just state that these celebrities are lacking in manners, education, and social graces, rather than use an epithet that encompasses this meaning but also carries with it certain prejudices.

dizzygoround

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2010, 12:44:08 AM »
This didn't surprise me at all from the Hewitts. Aussie e-hellions may remember when they claimed to be the "Australian Posh and Becks"!  ::)  Yeah, in their dreams, maybe.

It's pretty tacky and crass to try and make money off your new baby's arrival, but I tend to just have a good laugh at the antics of the Hewitts and others like them (the Kardashians and Paris Hilton spring to mind.) Today's B and C-list celebrities have learned that when your star is falling, you need quick shock value to get back into the tabloids and the masses will eat it up. Or, you know, you could just fade away from the limelight in a dignified manner, as some do.

cnhartman2

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Re: Want to know the baby's name? Cough up the cash.
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2010, 12:06:41 AM »
OK, I have two opinions on this.

1. It is completely tasteless to charge fans to find out what the name of the baby is.

2. The fans are kind of pathetic for caring that much.  I remember when Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes had a baby and I kept seeing magazine article that suggested the baby wasn't real because no one ever saw her.  Just because you're a fan, you think you have the right to know everything about the celebrity's personal life?  Maybe they don't want their baby in the spotlight.

I say both the fans and celebs are in the wrong on this one.