Wearing Fur

[thebadchemist]

1. A swastika or message inciting religious hatred

2. Revealing clothes in certain situations (eg house of worship) (some religions, of course, extend this to women wearing revealing clothes in any situation)

Even in these situations, however, some discretion is in order.

I don't know about the first one.  I'd probably just ignore them, since I would assume someone wearing a swastika is looking for attention and possibly a fight.

In the second case, the polite thing to do is to discreetly take the wearer aside and inform her (or him) of the dress code.  As far as women dressing in a revealing fashion in a public place, in most cases it's best to just leave them alone.

Well, I think for #1, I wouldn't approach them out of fear for my safety. It's simple: I'm a minority and frankly, if they're going to advertise that kind of belief, I'm not going anywhere near them. They obviously think people like me shouldn't exist and who knows how far they'd go to demonstrate that belief?

I was at a Red Robin (a burger restauarant), and two men came in dressed very oddly. It was obvious who they were trying to look like... Hitler.

I was so agitated that I could barely enjoy my meal. I wasn't really sure what I could have done. I wanted to be moved to another table, but BF said to relax and not to worry. They can't hurt me. I snapped, "That's easy for you to say, they don't hate YOU." We didn't change tables, but next time, I'm not going to accomodate BF's desire to not cause a scene.

[T'Mar of Vulcan]

It's kind of like the "shop Walmart/don't shop Walmart" debate.  People on both sides have their reasons, and are equally free to exercise the choices they make.

Okay, for someone who doesn't have a Walmart in her country (and we've always had supermarkets here - one of the "youngest" chains is Pick 'n Pay, and that opened in the '60s!), could someone give me an idea of what the Walmart "debate" is actually about? A precis or a link; whatever. I've heard about the "Walmart debate" before but am still clueless as to the whys and wherefores.

Thanks.

[kingsrings]

It's kind of like the "shop Walmart/don't shop Walmart" debate.  People on both sides have their reasons, and are equally free to exercise the choices they make.

Okay, for someone who doesn't have a Walmart in her country (and we've always had supermarkets here - one of the "youngest" chains is Pick 'n Pay, and that opened in the '60s!), could someone give me an idea of what the Walmart "debate" is actually about? A precis or a link; whatever. I've heard about the "Walmart debate" before but am still clueless as to the whys and wherefores.

Thanks.

You can find out plenty on the Internet. I don't think it's wise to get into discussion about the Wal-Mart thing here because it will get very political.

[Gwywnnydd]

Okay, for someone who doesn't have a Walmart in her country (and we've always had supermarkets here - one of the "youngest" chains is Pick 'n Pay, and that opened in the '60s!), could someone give me an idea of what the Walmart "debate" is actually about? A precis or a link; whatever. I've heard about the "Walmart debate" before but am still clueless as to the whys and wherefores.

Thanks.

Here's a quick over-view of the major points.

http://campusprogress.org/features/659/the-great-wal-mart-debate

[MineralDiva]

I agree, kingsrings.  That's not a discussion we should have here.  It was merely mentioned as another topic about which many have strong feelings, for and against.

Details of the issue can be found online elsewhere, for anyone so inclined to research further.

[goblue2539]

You are not going to influence many people to consider your opinion by being aggressive and nasty, IMHO.

I think it was in a conversation with my co-worker that I hit on the perfect saying for this.  Or maybe on this board....  I don't remember.  Anyway, we were talking about being colored in the same light as some more outspoken Christian people, and my response was, "I'm not likely to listen to someone after they hit me with a sledgehammer!"  I wish more protesters in general would remember that.  Similarly, a quote from Confucious would suffice as well. Never use a cannon to kill a mosquito.  

Side note, I don't shop at WalMart if I can help it, but it has very little to do with their policies.  It has to do with the crowds that are usually there and how crazy a few people can make the whole bunch seem.    Didn't mean to bring up the debate....just wanted to say there are other reasons than politics to not shop somewhere.

[Slartibartfast]

I would approach furs the same way I'd approach religion, unusually gleefull rights, abortion, and any other view where the "moral" thing to do would be to convince as many people as possible to believe the same thing you do (whichever side of the debates you're on).  Weigh the costs of speaking up against the costs of this particular person not believing in your cause, factoring in the chance of them actually being persuaded by your argument, and either speak up or don't.

I've had vegetarians get in-my-face about me eating meat.  My aunt refuses to eat in a restaurant that also serves meat (which at first meant we all changed our dining plans, but now means she gets left at home if she makes a stink).  I've also had a friend give me a well-reasoned argument about why he chooses not to eat meat, especially pork, and I found I agreed with him on some points.  While I still eat most meat, and don't have a moral problem with it, I now avoid pork and ham for environmental and economic reasons (at least, when I have a choice, I choose to eat something else instead).

There *is* a way to evangalize properly, be it religion, politics, or saving the spotted owl.  Annoying people ain't it.

ETA: lol, "g a y" is changed to "unusually gleeful" on this forum.

[MineralDiva]

There *is* a way to evangalize properly, be it religion, politics, or saving the spotted owl.  Annoying people ain't it.

Well said!

[leaf_eater]

There *is* a way to evangalize properly, be it religion, politics, or saving the spotted owl.  Annoying people ain't it.

One wonders if the Suffragettes and the Civil Rights movement (not to mention the Boston Tea Party) would have gotten anywhere had they been concerned with not annoying people.

[Hawkwatcher]

There *is* a way to evangalize properly, be it religion, politics, or saving the spotted owl.  Annoying people ain't it.

One wonders if the Suffragettes and the Civil Rights movement (not to mention the Boston Tea Party) would have gotten anywhere had they been concerned with not annoying people.

You are correct.  The suffragettes most certainly did annoy people and were accused of a lot of nasty things.

However, I think that there is a difference between picking on private individuals verses working on long-term change.  There is nothing wrong, for example, with peaceful protests, writing one's elected officials and trying to educate the public.  Yet targeting private individuals-complete strangers- for personal choices is not the best approach.  Accusing complete strangers of murder such as the jerk in the OP's original post or other nasty things is not the best approach for convincing other people to embrace one's cause.   

[T'Mar of Vulcan]

Here's a quick over-view of the major points.
http://campusprogress.org/features/659/the-great-wal-mart-debate

Thanks!

[Sirius]

Agree. I get very irritated and turned off by someone shoving their politics in my face, no matter how politely it is done. Don't tell me where to shop, what to wear, who to vote for, etc. Have some respect and tolerance for other's political/religious views.

Same here.  I don't appreciate having someone try to superimpose their  beliefs and convictions on me. 

[RuneGuardian]

I really don't think there is a polite way to tell someone you object to their choices, especially when said choice cannot be classified matter-of-factly as being right or wrong. Personally, I won't wear real furs by choice; I do have a couple coats with fur-lined collars, but I do not know if the fur is real. But I like the coats too much to not wear them. However, if I see someone wearing a fur coat or stole or whatever, I'm not going to care. People don't criticize my choices in fashion, so I am in no position to criticize theirs.

In a situation like that, I would say the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut. If you are offended by something someone else wears or does that might not offend everyone else in the world, you might end up getting huffy about defeinding your beliefs; pushing your beliefs on someone will not bring back the animals that were killed to make the coat/stole, nor will it make the fur industry stop in its tracks.

[Musicwoman]

This is an honest question, so please don't flame me.  I'm not trying to be sarcastic or snarky, I would really like to know the answer to this.

What is it about fur that makes it so much more offensive to many people than meat or leather? 

I have never heard of animal rights activists throwing red paint over people's leather shoes or staking out the opening of a new McDonalds.  If it is the killing of animals the activists object to, the meat and leather industries are a far more logical target, with a death toll in the tens of millions rather than thousands like the fur industry.  I also understand that fur-producing animals are farmed, rather than taken from the wild.

I repeat; I understand that some people have intense moral objections to fur and I respect their beliefs.  I am just interested to learn the reasons behind them.

[pinacoladasundae]

Hello all. In response to the question, I was taught to never give your opinion unless asked, and if you (general you) are asked, your response should be both tactful and polite. Even if I happen to disagree with the choices another human being makes, I feel I must temporarily put myself in his/her situation for a moment before I simply open my mouth. We should respect other people’s choices, and practice empathy. .

very nicely said!

Thanks, I wish these were my words, but they belong to mom. I think without her instruction I would have thought and behaved quite differently. I could just imagine myslef beating some one, that I did not agree with, with a stick . This is where I really miss that Devil smiley