Post Secret

[Calypso]

Is upper right corner Tom (Felton?) who plays Draco?
And who is lower left corner?

mercy, how those kids have all grown....

[jimithing]

This isn't the first post card of this kind. There was another one in the past year that was in a similar vein. I sort of agree with hobish. I can see both sides to this. I guess you could blame Frank Warren, however, for publishing it. He gets thousands of secrets and week, and only publishes 20 of them.

I love PS. I read it every week, and I have seen Frank Warren speak at a local university. I love the project, and all he does for suicide awareness.

I didn't realize that sleeping with one man makes a woman a "tramp." That seems rather uncalled for on an etiquette site.

[LadyPekoe]

On the back of this postcard it said "the world thinks you're perfect but our daughter deserves better".

I believe it, personally.  I think it's pretty naive to think that most famous young men didn't have at least a brief time where they slept with everyone who was interested.  And calling the girl a tramp?  That is exactly why PS exists--so people can tell their secrets in a non-judgmental environment.

I adore PS.  I think it's very helpful for people to anonymously get things off their chest.  I hope to find a book with a secret in it eventually so I can buy it (it's common for people to go in to bookstores and write a secret in the PS books for someone else to fine). 

[hyzenthlay]

I like the martyr tone 

I've had a wonderful child, that I won't even tell the father about, but it's his fault because he probably can't remember my name.

Actually all I get out of this is 'he can't remember my name' but I can't remember which if these guys it was, so I put them all on the postcard 

[DangerMouth]

OK, I see your point better now. I don't know that it is about personal justice though. She could get that better by going to them and demanding child support and threatening to bring it to the public. I took it as being her feeling like she can't do anything (either because she is ashamed or because she doesn't want to risk them wanting a relationship with her daughter).

Rethinking it more, I would agree it was wrong if they named a specific person. Because these are all celebrities, I don't think is that specific though. Knowing the reputations that celebrites tend to get, I don't think it is that scandalous to say one famous man among 7 could have a kid they don't know about. The thought is kind of ingrained because scandals are so common. I see your point though and I would agree if it had pictures of men that you wouldn't otherwise wonder about the secrets they may have.

It is kinda interesting, because of the celebrity aspect, and we do seem to have an ingrained feeling "oh well, celebrities and movie stars, they signed up for it, so no worries". But if you looked at that postcard and saw a pic of your dad, brothers and uncles, it would seem both worse, and more likely to be true.

Anyway, I think it's tacky and also a weird kind of attention-grabbing move because the person getting the attention is anonomous, so it all rebounds onto those named (if there is anything to "it all" to begin with, which I kinda doubt. I mean, we've talked about it here for ...um, 18 posts now. I mean do any of us really believe it? Or maybe we're saying, "Sure, I'd believe that of Malfoy, but not Harry!!"

To jimithing, yes, it was judgemental of me, but I don't see an etiquette violation in calling an anononous person a tramp. Mostly it seems sad and tacky. If she's so proud of herself and at peace with her choices, why be anonomous? What I heard is "He probably can't even remember my name". That reads like shame to me, not "I had Harry Potter's love child! w00t!"

I guess the thing I object to is calling real people into this, but playing coy and not naming the person specifically. If she had said "I had a one night stand, I never told him about our child, and he wouldn't even remember my name", then yeah, I'd feel pity for her, and glad she found happiness in her child, and appreciate the secret. But this is throwing mud at 7 real people, only one of whom actually deserve it. So I guess my 'tramp' reaction was the contempt I feel for a person who wants to play dirty but keep her own hands clean.

[jimithing]

To jimithing, yes, it was judgemental of me, but I don't see an etiquette violation in calling an anononous person a tramp. Mostly it seems sad and tacky. If she's so proud of herself and at peace with her choices, why be anonomous? What I heard is "He probably can't even remember my name". That reads like shame to me, not "I had Harry Potter's love child! w00t!"

There have been a couple of discussions recently, regarding name calling on the board. I think calling a woman a tramp is not in line with an etiquette board. It plays into a stereotype of a woman who sleeps with one person, or even has a one night stand, as someone who is dirty and immoral, and that it's all her fault she got pregnant. You can express your distaste for her actions without resorting to calling someone a name, especially one that only really is used for women.

[LadyPekoe]

Man, I disagree with you so much it's amazing

I don't see this as any different from any other secret on the site.  Why in the world would you think she just wants attention?  What attention is she possibly getting?  It's not like the story is getting picked up by the news.  And plenty of secrets have a real picture as the background--people have recognized themselves before on other secrets.  I remember one in particular that had a picture as a background and said something like "I will always regret what I did to you".  Someone obviously recognized it, wrote back, and said "I forgave you a long time ago".  I don't see the difference, you don't deserve more respect because you are famous.

Plenty of the secrets read as shame.  

[DangerMouth]

To jimithing, yes, it was judgemental of me, but I don't see an etiquette violation in calling an anononous person a tramp. Mostly it seems sad and tacky. If she's so proud of herself and at peace with her choices, why be anonomous? What I heard is "He probably can't even remember my name". That reads like shame to me, not "I had Harry Potter's love child! w00t!"

There have been a couple of discussions recently, regarding name calling on the board. I think calling a woman a tramp is not in line with an etiquette board. It plays into a stereotype of a woman who sleeps with one person, or even has a one night stand, as someone who is dirty and immoral, and that it's all her fault she got pregnant. You can express your distaste for her actions without resorting to calling someone a name, especially one that only really is used for women.

And I seem to recall a mod saying that as it wasn't directed at anyone here, people shouldn't take it so personally. I mean, I personally hate the term "gimme pig", but as the Dame herself uses it, who am I to disagree?

I guess my 'tramp' reaction was the contempt I feel for a person who wants to play dirty but keep her own hands clean. But in the interests of getting along, I retract my use of the word "tramp".

[DangerMouth]

Man, I disagree with you so much it's amazing

I don't see this as any different from any other secret on the site.  Why in the world would you think she just wants attention?  What attention is she possibly getting?  It's not like the story is getting picked up by the news.  And plenty of secrets have a real picture as the background--people have recognized themselves before on other secrets.  I remember one in particular that had a picture as a background and said something like "I will always regret what I did to you".  Someone obviously recognized it, wrote back, and said "I forgave you a long time ago".  I don't see the difference, you don't deserve more respect because you are famous.

Plenty of the secrets read as shame.  

I think it's nasty to sling mud at real people who can't sling back, that's all. I respect that you feel differntly.

[LadyPekoe]

Yeah, well, plenty of famous people sleep around with anyone who is interested too.  I have two close friends who have slept with a number of famous people due to the crowd they hang around with.  It's hardly impossible to imagine for me. 

[jimithing]

Yeah, well, plenty of famous people sleep around with anyone who is interested too.  I have two close friends who have slept with a number of famous people due to the crowd they hang around with.  It's hardly impossible to imagine for me. 

Tiger Woods, anyone?

[DangerMouth]

Yeah, well, plenty of famous people sleep around with anyone who is interested too.  I have two close friends who have slept with a number of famous people due to the crowd they hang around with.  It's hardly impossible to imagine for me. 

Gah! Actually, it's pretty easy for me to imagine, too. I just object to her tarring with the same brush people who might be quite innocent of the behavior, is all.

And I still see a big difference between "I'm disclosing my secret anonomously" and "I'm disclosing your secret publically".

If she wanted to get a paternity test, go to court and sue for child support, her name would be part of the public record. She might have her reasons for not doing so, but then why smear 6 men innocent of this particular interaction?

Personally, I don't believe a word of it, but it's an interesting discussion. If it is true, I could find even more fault with her. Deciding your child, who is also the child of someone else, should never meet nor know her dad, never have the advantages of having a well-off father? Maybe she's in great shape, financially, and the kid will never want for anything. Or maybe not, it's still pretty arbitrary to decide that dad is nothing more than a sperm-doner if you don't even make the attempt. It just seems massively unfair to me.

I mean, I have a GF who refused to name the father of her kid to the welfare agency, because she knew what a nasty sob he was and didn't want him to pursue a relationship with her child (when he got out of jail), but I see this woman deciding these things based on nothing more than her own hurt ego that this brief affair didn't lead to a lasting relationship.

More assumptions on my part, but it seems unfair and petty.

[MaggieB]

I think it's nasty to sling mud at real people who can't sling back, that's all. I respect that you feel differntly.

I don't see the postcard as "slinging mud" though.  I'm not familiar with all the actors on the card, but the ones I do know of aren't married.  And since the woman never mentions her child's age, we can't really know if any infidelity occurred even if other are married.  So basically she's just saying one of those men had a one night stand.  I don't know anyone who would be shocked to find out that a celebrity had a one night stand.

I think the submitter's secret, keeping a child a secret from her father, is much worse.  This card doesn't tell me anything about the men she's named.  It tells me a lot about her.  The situation, the tone of the card, the words on the back, her phrasing, etc. all paint a picture of the woman who made the postcard and it does say something to me about the woman.  It's supposed to.  It's an art project and her submission gave me an impression about her.  I'm sure it gave everyone else a certain impression about her too.  Some people feel sorry for her.  Some think she's a martyr.  Some think she's cruel or attention seeking or whatever.  And on and on.  That's what happens when people submit secrets.

But her card is about her.  It doesn't say anything about the men she named except that one had a one night stand/very brief relationship at some point in the past.  

[Nora]

I read PS every sunday/monday, and I was thorougly unimpressed with this one. I'm not buying it. I hope noone else does either.

[kglory]

But this is throwing mud at 7 real people, only one of whom actually deserve it.

This is exactly why I think it's rude.

The card does not say, "Famous person X is such a scumbag; he slept with me and denies paternity and won't pay child support!"  Such an accusation, even if written in much more defamatory language, would actually bother me less.  Because it would accuse a specific person of a specific immoral action (denying one's child being the immoral action).

Instead, it says, "One of these 7 people is the father of my child!"  Hardly fair to the other 6 to get the whole public speculating.  This kind of tactic honestly smacks of junior high gossip and attention-getting.  Is the mother really doing right by her daughter by going about it this way (if it really is true)?  Why not skip the gossip website and just sue the lover for child support?