Author Topic: Wishing it won't make it so  (Read 10039 times)

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Mental Magpie

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2011, 01:21:43 AM »
And yet I find all of those responses rude.  Why can't anyone just address the situation head-on?  I realize with adults such responses can be funny and stress-relieving, but with children I find those responses to be a flippant dismissal of the child's emotions.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

Alida

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2011, 01:29:38 AM »
And yet I find all of those responses rude.  Why can't anyone just address the situation head-on?  I realize with adults such responses can be funny and stress-relieving, but with children I find those responses to be a flippant dismissal of the child's emotions.

I think it really depends on the family and the child. DD would have gotten a giggle from many of these responses as a little girl.

iradney

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2011, 12:49:36 PM »
And yet I find all of those responses rude.  Why can't anyone just address the situation head-on?  I realize with adults such responses can be funny and stress-relieving, but with children I find those responses to be a flippant dismissal of the child's emotions.

I guess it's a "know your audience thing". Sometimes you need to say something out of ordinary to make them realise that they are dismissing your statement that what they are asking is not going to happen/not possible.

I suppose it's also a metaphorical snap of your fingers to wake them up, since lines like that are normally used in these types of situations:

Son: Gosh, I really really would like to borrow your car for *fancy event*
Mom: I'm not comfortable with that
Son: But it matches my date's purse! You need to lend it to me
Mom: No, really, I don't think that's going to happen
Son: But I really want to borrow it!
(repeat a few more times)
Mom: And I would really like to snog Nathan Fillion, but that's not going to happen, is it?
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Mental Magpie

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2011, 11:07:55 AM »
And yet I find all of those responses rude.  Why can't anyone just address the situation head-on?  I realize with adults such responses can be funny and stress-relieving, but with children I find those responses to be a flippant dismissal of the child's emotions.

I guess it's a "know your audience thing". Sometimes you need to say something out of ordinary to make them realise that they are dismissing your statement that what they are asking is not going to happen/not possible.

I suppose it's also a metaphorical snap of your fingers to wake them up, since lines like that are normally used in these types of situations:

Son: Gosh, I really really would like to borrow your car for *fancy event*
Mom: I'm not comfortable with that
Son: But it matches my date's purse! You need to lend it to me
Mom: No, really, I don't think that's going to happen
Son: But I really want to borrow it!
(repeat a few more times)
Mom: And I would really like to snog Nathan Fillion, but that's not going to happen, is it?

Why not simply say, "I told you 'no'; if you ask one more time you will not be allowed to borrow the car for the rest of the month."?  I can understand when it is said jokingly between people that are familiar with one another, but as a response to a subordinate I still find it rude and dismissive.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

iradney

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2011, 02:16:40 PM »
Why not simply say, "I told you 'no'; if you ask one more time you will not be allowed to borrow the car for the rest of the month."?  I can understand when it is said jokingly between people that are familiar with one another, but as a response to a subordinate I still find it rude and dismissive.

You can't get much more familiarity than parent and child, to be honest. I can only speak for myself here, but I only use responses like that with people that I know very well.

Sometimes "I told you 'no'" doesn't get through; and honestly, once you've said it six times in a row, you get exasperated (and rightfully so!) and respond with something that stops the "I WANNA" train in it's tracks. (the only experience here I have is as the "I WANNA" child who could be very willfull and stubborn. I can attest to the efficacy of the above method as it would honestly make me stop "I WANNA"ing, and actually absorb what my parents was saying).
“It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance.”
-Thomas Huxley

Mental Magpie

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2011, 05:50:20 PM »
Why not simply say, "I told you 'no'; if you ask one more time you will not be allowed to borrow the car for the rest of the month."?  I can understand when it is said jokingly between people that are familiar with one another, but as a response to a subordinate I still find it rude and dismissive.

You can't get much more familiarity than parent and child, to be honest. I can only speak for myself here, but I only use responses like that with people that I know very well.

Sometimes "I told you 'no'" doesn't get through; and honestly, once you've said it six times in a row, you get exasperated (and rightfully so!) and respond with something that stops the "I WANNA" train in it's tracks. (the only experience here I have is as the "I WANNA" child who could be very willfull and stubborn. I can attest to the efficacy of the above method as it would honestly make me stop "I WANNA"ing, and actually absorb what my parents was saying).

Note that I said "jokingly", please.  That's why you (general 'you') follow up with the outlined consequences.  All actions have consequences, whether good or bad, and children need to begin to learn this at a young age.  It's not okay to respond to a stranger with rudeness when you're frustrated so it is not okay to do it with your child, either.  If you (again, general 'you') follow through with not allowing the child to take the car, then again following through with what you have said when he pulls the "I want" again, he will soon learn you mean it and will stop with the "I want"s, even if stopping only happens after you threaten a consequence that he doesn't like.  

ETA: Saying, "I'm afraid that won't be possible" works just as well, too, but a snarky remark as to "It's nice to want" is just as bad as a snarky remark to a stranger.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 05:52:06 PM by Dark Magdalena »
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

EduardosGirl

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2011, 05:20:16 AM »
And yet I find all of those responses rude.  Why can't anyone just address the situation head-on?  I realize with adults such responses can be funny and stress-relieving, but with children I find those responses to be a flippant dismissal of the child's emotions.

I guess it's a "know your audience thing". Sometimes you need to say something out of ordinary to make them realise that they are dismissing your statement that what they are asking is not going to happen/not possible.

I suppose it's also a metaphorical snap of your fingers to wake them up, since lines like that are normally used in these types of situations:

Son: Gosh, I really really would like to borrow your car for *fancy event*
Mom: I'm not comfortable with that
Son: But it matches my date's purse! You need to lend it to me
Mom: No, really, I don't think that's going to happen
Son: But I really want to borrow it!
(repeat a few more times)
Mom: And I would really like to snog Nathan Fillion, but that's not going to happen, is it?

Why not simply say, "I told you 'no'; if you ask one more time you will not be allowed to borrow the car for the rest of the month."?  I can understand when it is said jokingly between people that are familiar with one another, but as a response to a subordinate I still find it rude and dismissive.

I think the disconnect may be coming from the idea that someone's child is their subordinate.

I think the tone of familiarity and deep affection that one feels for a child means that, in an affectionate rel@tionship, one could say to one's child "I would like to take flight on mighty wings, visit Saturn, pants Captain Malcolm Reynolds and return with ice cream. So, let's deal with our mutual disappointment, then, shall we?" and not be rude. At a certain point though, the complaint must be dismissed.

That doesn't mean one is dismissive, rather that you would like a complaint that is going nowhere (because it's not going to happen) to cease.

The idea that a child is a subordinate is kind of... offputting to me. Did you mean something else?

iradney

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2011, 06:20:38 AM »
Why not simply say, "I told you 'no'; if you ask one more time you will not be allowed to borrow the car for the rest of the month."?  I can understand when it is said jokingly between people that are familiar with one another, but as a response to a subordinate I still find it rude and dismissive.

You can't get much more familiarity than parent and child, to be honest. I can only speak for myself here, but I only use responses like that with people that I know very well.

Sometimes "I told you 'no'" doesn't get through; and honestly, once you've said it six times in a row, you get exasperated (and rightfully so!) and respond with something that stops the "I WANNA" train in it's tracks. (the only experience here I have is as the "I WANNA" child who could be very willfull and stubborn. I can attest to the efficacy of the above method as it would honestly make me stop "I WANNA"ing, and actually absorb what my parents was saying).

Note that I said "jokingly", please.  That's why you (general 'you') follow up with the outlined consequences.  All actions have consequences, whether good or bad, and children need to begin to learn this at a young age.  It's not okay to respond to a stranger with rudeness when you're frustrated so it is not okay to do it with your child, either.  If you (again, general 'you') follow through with not allowing the child to take the car, then again following through with what you have said when he pulls the "I want" again, he will soon learn you mean it and will stop with the "I want"s, even if stopping only happens after you threaten a consequence that he doesn't like.  

ETA: Saying, "I'm afraid that won't be possible" works just as well, too, but a snarky remark as to "It's nice to want" is just as bad as a snarky remark to a stranger.

It has been a learning experience to see it from another perspective, but I think we may need to agree to disagree :)
“It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance.”
-Thomas Huxley

Army Mom

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2011, 12:42:47 PM »
Our family has used "And people in really hot place want ice water"

I've used this myself but DD16 now replies "I'll bring them some when I get there!"  >:D

Mental Magpie

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Re: Wishing it won't make it so
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2011, 01:57:17 PM »
HatStrap:  Blame "subordinate" on military life  :-\, I simply meant someone over which you have authority.  I realize that you do want an argument that is not going anywhere to stop, but I still feel that "Nice to want" (or something similar) is a dismissal of someone's feelings and that there is a better and less rude way to address the problem.  To me, you wouldn't say "Nice to want" to a stranger, so you shouldn't say it to your family, either.  I only ever remembering feeling hurt/angry/upset that my mother wouldn't even take the time to listen to WHY I wanted it and what I would do to get it; instead I was dismissed with "Nice to want" no matter how many times I tried to explain to her how and why I was being reasonable in my request. 

iradney:  Yes, I guess we will; and I agree that it was a healthy discussion and that it was nice to see others' views. 
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.