Author Topic: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat  (Read 10993 times)

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MaggieB

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #150 on: December 19, 2010, 04:40:46 PM »
I think the context changes the remark completely. To me the original remark was " That dancer is fat." and after the review I read it as, " The dancers were not the shape the creator wanted." Is it just me or is the fact that he called both dancers a little too large being totally glossed over by the media?

Personally, I only saw a video of the female dancer dancing, so I have no idea whether the guy is a little overweight or whether he is also just a little more broad than the average male ballet dancer.  That's why I can't really comment on the review of him.

I think that body types are of course going to be mentioned in reviews.  If the reviewer had said this girl looks like a linebacker or should lay off the steroids, it would still have been a low blow and kind of jerky of him, but I would agree that it got the reviewer's point across and as such was not worth fussing about.  But the "one too many sugarplums" comment gives the impression that the dancer is overweight or out of shape, which is not the case.  It bothers me because it's inaccurate, and I don't like that instead of actually taking a minute to craft a sentence that conveyed the real problem (even one with a biting zinger) he just made a fat joke and called it good.

hyzenthlay

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #151 on: December 19, 2010, 04:49:10 PM »
I think the context changes the remark completely. To me the original remark was " That dancer is fat." and after the review I read it as, " The dancers were not the shape the creator wanted." Is it just me or is the fact that he called both dancers a little too large being totally glossed over by the media?

See I don't get that out of his review. I only get 'the dancers were too fat.' I think only if you know the background of that particularly ballet do you get that they were 'too large for the part' and that he was making a bad joke about it.

But I have to admit I found his column really hard to slog through. He doesn't seem to be a very good writer to begin with.

stargazer

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #152 on: December 19, 2010, 08:34:52 PM »
[This is where one of the major disagreements comes in, I guess.  The review is about the ballet, so reading it I assume he's critiquing her size in relation to the ballet -- how well she dances, how well she fits the role, etc. 


But he DIDN'T.  That's the point.  He didn't say "She was heavier than the other girls, so she didn't jump as high, lift her leg as well, dance as well."  He just insinuated that she was fat (because really, I have never heard someone say "eaten one too many anything" without meaning they are overweight).  That, along with being completely untrue, does not tell me anything about if this affected her dance and therefore came off as simply a cheap shot.

Surianne

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #153 on: December 19, 2010, 11:02:10 PM »
[This is where one of the major disagreements comes in, I guess.  The review is about the ballet, so reading it I assume he's critiquing her size in relation to the ballet -- how well she dances, how well she fits the role, etc. 


But he DIDN'T.  That's the point. 

And that's where we disagree, which is what I said.  For me, because the review is about the ballet, I extrapolate reading it that he's talking about her size as a part of the ballet and not as a personal attack.  You see it differently.  I just said that in my post -- that we disagree on this.  Using caps to yell DIDN'T isn't going to make that any different. 

immadz

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #154 on: December 19, 2010, 11:13:06 PM »
[This is where one of the major disagreements comes in, I guess.  The review is about the ballet, so reading it I assume he's critiquing her size in relation to the ballet -- how well she dances, how well she fits the role, etc. 


But he DIDN'T.  That's the point. 

And that's where we disagree, which is what I said.  For me, because the review is about the ballet, I extrapolate reading it that he's talking about her size as a part of the ballet and not as a personal attack.  You see it differently.  I just said that in my post -- that we disagree on this.  Using caps to yell DIDN'T isn't going to make that any different. 

I agree. All editorial pieces are open to interpretation. I didn't see it as a the ballerina is fat either. The review was ranting about how he feels the interpretation fell short and the shape was just an aspect of it.


stargazer

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #155 on: December 20, 2010, 12:23:30 AM »
I apologize for the caps as I was stressing the word but didn't intend to yell.  I should have italicized.  :)

I just can't see how this isn't a personal attack on her size, not ballet.  And I have really read your posts, but the fat comment didn't have any follow up.  That's why I can't see how this is a critique of ballet.  Especially as this is an etiquette site, I can't see how it wasn't rude (as well as incorrect).

immadz

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #156 on: December 20, 2010, 12:41:17 AM »
I apologize for the caps as I was stressing the word but didn't intend to yell.  I should have italicized.  :)

I just can't see how this isn't a personal attack on her size, not ballet.  And I have really read your posts, but the fat comment didn't have any follow up.  That's why I can't see how this is a critique of ballet.  Especially as this is an etiquette site, I can't see how it wasn't rude (as well as incorrect).

I don't know enough about ballet to know if it was incorrect. I don't know what the creator would have intended, but as others have weighed in on that it does seem like this was a more lose interpretation of the creator's intent than the reviewer would have liked. Seems like he felt this at other spots in the performance as well. Several posters, including myself have weighed in on how we read it as a critique of ballet- we don't have to agree just to acknowledge that the editorial like the performance is open to interpretation.


stargazer

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #157 on: December 20, 2010, 10:19:29 AM »
The reason I say it was incorrect is because I have seen this dancer.  She is a maybe bit more muscular than some other girls, but I did not see any fat on her.  You don't get to be that muscular by eating "one too many sugerplums".

TurtleDove

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #158 on: December 20, 2010, 10:39:31 AM »
The reason I say it was incorrect is because I have seen this dancer.  She is a maybe bit more muscular than some other girls, but I did not see any fat on her.  You don't get to be that muscular by eating "one too many sugerplums".

I see it as no different than a jockey being told he is "overweight."  Is he "fat" in a general sense?  Probably not.  Is he "too big" for his career as a jockey, which requires him to be small and compact?  Probably.  Same for sumo wrestlers.  Is a 6 foot 300 pound man "too small" in a general sense?  No.  Is he "too small" to be a successful sumo wrestler?  Perhaps.

Here, whether any of us think it was the best way to state his opinion, the critic is most likely not taking the dancer to terms for being "overweight" or "fat" in a general sense.  He was using wordplay (sugarplums) in the context of a Nutcracker performance to state that, in his opinion, the dancer's size/shape affected the performance of the ballet.  He thinks her size was distracting (as was that of her male counterpart).  This isn't a situation of "the critic hates fat people - what a toad!"  He may, or he may not.  From his opinion that the dancers' ize/shape affected the performance of the ballet we don't know one way or the other. 

Wendy Moira Angela Pan

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #159 on: December 20, 2010, 03:07:58 PM »
He was using wordplay, but it was a clumsy joke, and an inaccurate, misleading way to state his objections to her frame. Too broad and muscular for a fairy is not the same thing as "too many sugar plums." The latter implies she's neglecting her craft in favor of chowing on candy. That's insulting for reasons other than the critic's possible dislike of fat people.

immadz

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #160 on: December 20, 2010, 05:15:58 PM »
He was using wordplay, but it was a clumsy joke, and an inaccurate, misleading way to state his objections to her frame. Too broad and muscular for a fairy is not the same thing as "too many sugar plums." The latter implies she's neglecting her craft in favor of chowing on candy. That's insulting for reasons other than the critic's possible dislike of fat people.

I don''t know if she was broad, but I understand the urge to use word play. She was teh sugar plum fairy!


Wendy Moira Angela Pan

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #161 on: December 20, 2010, 05:53:19 PM »
Hahaha. Fair enough, immadz.

DangerMouth

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #162 on: December 20, 2010, 05:56:52 PM »
He was using wordplay, but it was a clumsy joke, and an inaccurate, misleading way to state his objections to her frame. Too broad and muscular for a fairy is not the same thing as "too many sugar plums." The latter implies she's neglecting her craft in favor of chowing on candy. That's insulting for reasons other than the critic's possible dislike of fat people.

I don''t know if she was broad, but I understand the urge to use word play. She was teh sugar plum fairy!

LOL, right? Someone, somewhere, is going to choreograph a Nutcracker with a Sugarplum fairy who really lives up to her name :D

immadz

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Re: Ballet Critic tells ballerina she looks fat
« Reply #163 on: December 20, 2010, 07:14:24 PM »
He was using wordplay, but it was a clumsy joke, and an inaccurate, misleading way to state his objections to her frame. Too broad and muscular for a fairy is not the same thing as "too many sugar plums." The latter implies she's neglecting her craft in favor of chowing on candy. That's insulting for reasons other than the critic's possible dislike of fat people.

I don''t know if she was broad, but I understand the urge to use word play. She was teh sugar plum fairy!

LOL, right? Someone, somewhere, is going to choreograph a Nutcracker with a Sugarplum fairy who really lives up to her name :D

Everytime, I watch the nutcracker, I always think that is the coolest fairy to be. I would be the Krispy Kreme fairy, if that were an option!