Author Topic: Questioning details and discrepancies  (Read 12613 times)

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Hanna

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2011, 02:03:48 PM »
A few people (including me) have said they are okay with outright fabrications.

If you are okay with it, does anything change that for you?

It changes for me when I see other posters getting sucked into an emotionally harrowing story and expressing empathy for someone.

I agree. Sucking people into a made-up emotional drama is far worse than changing the name of a business. I have far less feelings about a business than I would about about a poster I've been posting alongside for a year (as in the case of optometry girl).

One is a case of "oh well, bad experience, la la la", the other is a case of a poster you've come to "know" actually getting hurt. There's a world of difference between the two.
Interesting.  I don't want to discuss the recent thread specifically because I have no clear understanding of what happened or why.  So please know I am speaking in general about a case of someone fabricating a story about a business or person and naming names.

Libel is illegal.  Lying about a person or business by name is definitely rude, unnecessary and can cause trouble for the site host.

I don't like to see people get their feelings hurt, yet, I find it much less egregious than libel because we are all adults here and certainly aware that people can make things up. 


Ms_Shell

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 02:08:05 PM »
If that's a major concern, I think the best action would be to refer the thread to the moderators, who have the ability to ban/gag/delete as necessary to protect the site.  I think I'll stop there because any further points are going to start heading into legal territory.  :)
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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2011, 02:16:48 PM »
A few people (including me) have said they are okay with outright fabrications.

If you are okay with it, does anything change that for you?

It changes for me when I see other posters getting sucked into an emotionally harrowing story and expressing empathy for someone.

I agree. Sucking people into a made-up emotional drama is far worse than changing the name of a business. I have far less feelings about a business than I would about about a poster I've been posting alongside for a year (as in the case of optometry girl).

One is a case of "oh well, bad experience, la la la", the other is a case of a poster you've come to "know" actually getting hurt. There's a world of difference between the two.

I don't actually know optometry girl or he back story. I think there's a difference between " a clerk was rude to me" being complete fiction and the types of threads that people are giving heartfelt advise  , researching for the poster for months or years. "my mother is dieing , my father hits me,my brother is stealing my  medication, my kid had the flu and my dog ran away"  I can think of a few posters whom if I found out their entire stories were fiction I'd be angry. Dealing with abuse , illness , long term toxic relatives/neighbors is different to me then " I had a bad experience at a store" I might be annoyed at a sensational "bad store story" because it's trollish to get people worked up over fiction but I wouldn't be furious.

From the thread this post sprang from to me personally it wouldn't matter if the story was fiction beside the fact that a business was named.  It might make a difference in how I felt about the posters other threads though. For this case in particular I would actually be angry with the poster not for making up a story but because by naming business it could conceivable harm that business an it's employees. If you say "restaurant X spit in my food" , well if I have the choice between restaurant X and Y your statement may be a big part in my choosing to go to Y.

DangerMouth

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2011, 02:25:20 PM »
A few people (including me) have said they are okay with outright fabrications.

If you are okay with it, does anything change that for you?

It changes for me when I see other posters getting sucked into an emotionally harrowing story and expressing empathy for someone.

I agree. Sucking people into a made-up emotional drama is far worse than changing the name of a business. I have far less feelings about a business than I would about about a poster I've been posting alongside for a year (as in the case of optometry girl).

One is a case of "oh well, bad experience, la la la", the other is a case of a poster you've come to "know" actually getting hurt. There's a world of difference between the two.
Interesting.  I don't want to discuss the recent thread specifically because I have no clear understanding of what happened or why.  So please know I am speaking in general about a case of someone fabricating a story about a business or person and naming names.

Libel is illegal.  Lying about a person or business by name is definitely rude, unnecessary and can cause trouble for the site host.

I don't like to see people get their feelings hurt, yet, I find it much less egregious than libel because we are all adults here and certainly aware that people can make things up. 



A difference of opinion, or perspective then. Given all the XYZcompanysucks.com websites out there, I find it far less egregious to hear "I got bad service at XYZcompany store" than "Coworker tried to kill poster Hannah', who I've come to 'know' and respect, over the past year. The first is an isolated incidence that probably won't affect my knowlege and experience of XYZcompany, the second is something that I'd take far more personally, even if our lives interescted not at all.

Or to put it another way, a company can take care of itself, but we have real people posting here that they "need a hug". I've never seen Macy*s or Papa John's saying they needed a hug, KWIM?

Scuba_Dog

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 04:26:45 PM »
A few people (including me) have said they are okay with outright fabrications.

If you are okay with it, does anything change that for you?

It changes for me when I see other posters getting sucked into an emotionally harrowing story and expressing empathy for someone.

This.  That is where I tend to think a line needs to be drawn. 

Some stories are so outlandish and improbable that I feel almost embarrassed for the person posting it.  If someone wants to ask for details, I think doing it in a PM is fine.  The OP doesn't have to answer and can continue on with their thread.  If the thread ends up locked, then I'd say the MOD's made their opinion known.

I *do* however think it's wrong to come here, post a very negative story about a shop or restaurant and then when asked what the place was, say it was a place that it wasn't.  (Sorry, that sounds confusing but there it is.)  That's treading on very dangerous waters as far as I'm concerned and should not be allowed.

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2011, 04:55:00 PM »
  Macy's may never need a hug but there is a reason compnay pay million/billions to advertise and pump their image and a reason why some have gone to "Gorilla marketing" and their employees will need a hug if their pay gets cut.

 I remember the talk show DJ in my town on one station all had Direct TV, well they all had to say they had Direct TV or at the very least not mention a competitor. They could never tell a story about how at home Comcast or WOW did X because they were contracted to advertise and/or the station was owned by the same company as Direct TV. I remember one talking about A Local Cable Company and the other DJ saying over and over " No you don't have comcast , JOHN shut up dude you HAVE Direct TV." The point is we feel like we know talk show host we take their ownership of a product like a recommendation from a friend.  *I can't remember the DJ names or whether they had comcast , wow or something else*

Image matters and it's subtle. I've never been to a Piggly Wiggly if I heard several negative things about PW here from people I feel I know at least a little and some of them a lot, that alone with a lack of other experience may make the difference and cause e to avoid PW when/if I'm ever in the are they operate. 

Lisbeth

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2011, 05:06:02 PM »
A few people (including me) have said they are okay with outright fabrications.

If you are okay with it, does anything change that for you?

It changes for me when I see other posters getting sucked into an emotionally harrowing story and expressing empathy for someone.

This.  That is where I tend to think a line needs to be drawn. 

Some stories are so outlandish and improbable that I feel almost embarrassed for the person posting it.  If someone wants to ask for details, I think doing it in a PM is fine.  The OP doesn't have to answer and can continue on with their thread.  If the thread ends up locked, then I'd say the MOD's made their opinion known.

I *do* however think it's wrong to come here, post a very negative story about a shop or restaurant and then when asked what the place was, say it was a place that it wasn't.  (Sorry, that sounds confusing but there it is.)  That's treading on very dangerous waters as far as I'm concerned and should not be allowed.

I can agree with this.  On the other hand, I've noticed some people pick apart the details of every story and feel the need to post a "correction" even when the detail in question isn't really all that relevant, or relevant at all.  Some people may have jobs such as attorneys, law enforcement, insurance adjusters, or something that requires that every detail be gone over with a fine-toothed comb, but here at the Ehell forum, I can see that that can be really demoralizing unless the post in question is really way-out-there.
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McCutieBelle

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2011, 05:34:32 PM »
I think if you are comfortable maybe asking questions would be fine.

I know with me sometimes when I post, for example today I was TOTALLY taken aback by a slight that I felt from an acquantince and was ready to send him to EHell and just URGH rip him a new one... but then one of the posters with whom I speak to a great deal and whose posts I enjoy pointed a few things out to me and in hind sight it was not that bad, or I sometimes forget things I want to put into a story to explain things!
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Scuba_Dog

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2011, 05:34:48 PM »
A few people (including me) have said they are okay with outright fabrications.

If you are okay with it, does anything change that for you?

It changes for me when I see other posters getting sucked into an emotionally harrowing story and expressing empathy for someone.

This.  That is where I tend to think a line needs to be drawn. 

Some stories are so outlandish and improbable that I feel almost embarrassed for the person posting it.  If someone wants to ask for details, I think doing it in a PM is fine.  The OP doesn't have to answer and can continue on with their thread.  If the thread ends up locked, then I'd say the MOD's made their opinion known.

I *do* however think it's wrong to come here, post a very negative story about a shop or restaurant and then when asked what the place was, say it was a place that it wasn't.  (Sorry, that sounds confusing but there it is.)  That's treading on very dangerous waters as far as I'm concerned and should not be allowed.

I can agree with this.  On the other hand, I've noticed some people pick apart the details of every story and feel the need to post a "correction" even when the detail in question isn't really all that relevant, or relevant at all.  Some people may have jobs such as attorneys, law enforcement, insurance adjusters, or something that requires that every detail be gone over with a fine-toothed comb, but here at the Ehell forum, I can see that that can be really demoralizing unless the post in question is really way-out-there.

To the bolded, I agree, 100%  I don't like that either, especially when it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

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Hanna

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2011, 05:47:15 PM »
A few people (including me) have said they are okay with outright fabrications.

If you are okay with it, does anything change that for you?

It changes for me when I see other posters getting sucked into an emotionally harrowing story and expressing empathy for someone.

I agree. Sucking people into a made-up emotional drama is far worse than changing the name of a business. I have far less feelings about a business than I would about about a poster I've been posting alongside for a year (as in the case of optometry girl).

One is a case of "oh well, bad experience, la la la", the other is a case of a poster you've come to "know" actually getting hurt. There's a world of difference between the two.
Interesting.  I don't want to discuss the recent thread specifically because I have no clear understanding of what happened or why.  So please know I am speaking in general about a case of someone fabricating a story about a business or person and naming names.

Libel is illegal.  Lying about a person or business by name is definitely rude, unnecessary and can cause trouble for the site host.

I don't like to see people get their feelings hurt, yet, I find it much less egregious than libel because we are all adults here and certainly aware that people can make things up. 



A difference of opinion, or perspective then. Given all the XYZcompanysucks.com websites out there, I find it far less egregious to hear "I got bad service at XYZcompany store" than "Coworker tried to kill poster Hannah', who I've come to 'know' and respect, over the past year. The first is an isolated incidence that probably won't affect my knowlege and experience of XYZcompany, the second is something that I'd take far more personally, even if our lives interescted not at all.

Or to put it another way, a company can take care of itself, but we have real people posting here that they "need a hug". I've never seen Macy*s or Papa John's saying they needed a hug, KWIM?
Would you feel differently if they were lying about an individual?

DangerMouth

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2011, 12:08:23 PM »
A few people (including me) have said they are okay with outright fabrications.

If you are okay with it, does anything change that for you?

It changes for me when I see other posters getting sucked into an emotionally harrowing story and expressing empathy for someone.

I agree. Sucking people into a made-up emotional drama is far worse than changing the name of a business. I have far less feelings about a business than I would about about a poster I've been posting alongside for a year (as in the case of optometry girl).

One is a case of "oh well, bad experience, la la la", the other is a case of a poster you've come to "know" actually getting hurt. There's a world of difference between the two.
Interesting.  I don't want to discuss the recent thread specifically because I have no clear understanding of what happened or why.  So please know I am speaking in general about a case of someone fabricating a story about a business or person and naming names.

Libel is illegal.  Lying about a person or business by name is definitely rude, unnecessary and can cause trouble for the site host.

I don't like to see people get their feelings hurt, yet, I find it much less egregious than libel because we are all adults here and certainly aware that people can make things up. 



A difference of opinion, or perspective then. Given all the XYZcompanysucks.com websites out there, I find it far less egregious to hear "I got bad service at XYZcompany store" than "Coworker tried to kill poster Hannah', who I've come to 'know' and respect, over the past year. The first is an isolated incidence that probably won't affect my knowlege and experience of XYZcompany, the second is something that I'd take far more personally, even if our lives interescted not at all.

Or to put it another way, a company can take care of itself, but we have real people posting here that they "need a hug". I've never seen Macy*s or Papa John's saying they needed a hug, KWIM?
Would you feel differently if they were lying about an individual?

I guess it depends. I felt very strongly about the 'post secrets' girl who said that 'one of these 6 actors (real people) is the father of my child'. Individuals are different than corporations. I'm really not going to lose any sleep if a corporation is slurred. Corporations have no personality, no individuality, no soul. A corporation is not a person, and is not worthy of being treated as such. IMO.

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2011, 01:32:55 PM »
Quote
I've been on the other end if it. I posted a thread about 1 year/1.5 years ago. I left out some details in the first few posts that I ended up mentioning later (that when I went somewhere I took my daughter with me). It was completely irrelevant to the actual issue, but I got peltered with PM's from a member who fancied themselves a P.I, and who concluded that because I didn't mention this fact I was lying about the whole thing, and that definitely had to be the case because they had exposed trolls in the past and they had never been wrong.


That kind of sleuthing is so unhelpful and unnecessary; sorry that happened to you.

I do not care if stories are fabricated in general to get at an etiquette issue, but agree that the big bamboozle of deliberately lying to garner sympathy, create shock or concern, or call attention to how special one is would not be okay with me. If facts begin to emerge which imply fabrication geared toward any of these ends, I think it would be perfectly logical to question those facts.

Hanna

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2011, 02:37:30 PM »
I guess it depends. I felt very strongly about the 'post secrets' girl who said that 'one of these 6 actors (real people) is the father of my child'. Individuals are different than corporations. I'm really not going to lose any sleep if a corporation is slurred. Corporations have no personality, no individuality, no soul. A corporation is not a person, and is not worthy of being treated as such. IMO.
I definitely come from a different perspective.  Corporations may have no soul, but they employ people that do, and those people need to eat.  Their employment is how they feed and shelter themselves.  I take things that could negatively impact people's ability to provide themselves with basic necessities very seriously. Slurring a company hurts revenues.  Revenues are how people get paid and remain employed.  It might all seem like a stretch "Oh, what does it hurt if I say one false thing!?"  but I just can't respect one acting with reckless disregard for the reputation of any person or business.

I'm a big fan Maslow's hierarchy of needs so that may explain it.  Food is a basic need required  much more important than feelings.  Hurt feelings never caused anyone difficulty in obtaining life's necessities.


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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2011, 04:31:40 PM »
I've been on the other end if it. I posted a thread about 1 year/1.5 years ago. I left out some details in the first few posts that I ended up mentioning later (that when I went somewhere I took my daughter with me). It was completely irrelevant to the actual issue, but I got peltered with PM's from a member who fancied themselves a P.I, and who concluded that because I didn't mention this fact I was lying about the whole thing, and that definitely had to be the case because they had exposed trolls in the past and they had never been wrong.

Well I guess there's a first time for everything because they were indeed very, very wrong. It was extremely unpleasant, and rather surprising to be abused like that considering this is an etiquette site and we're all like, supposed to be polite to each other.

I would have preferred it if they had just reported my thread to the mods and let them decide. Maybe they did and the Mods didn't do their bidding which is why I was subjected to their vitriol? Who knows.

I had something similar happen to me.

I posted about something that happened to me involving one of my soccer dads. When I made the post, I forgot that I had posted about him before and I used another fake name. Both names were fake. People made the connection and some even had questions. I answered them, but then I was called out by one of the moderators. Apparently, my explanations weren't very convincing. I don't know what kind of reason I would have for lying about something like that though.

DangerMouth

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Re: Questioning details and discrepancies
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2011, 06:53:38 PM »
I guess it depends. I felt very strongly about the 'post secrets' girl who said that 'one of these 6 actors (real people) is the father of my child'. Individuals are different than corporations. I'm really not going to lose any sleep if a corporation is slurred. Corporations have no personality, no individuality, no soul. A corporation is not a person, and is not worthy of being treated as such. IMO.
I definitely come from a different perspective.  Corporations may have no soul, but they employ people that do, and those people need to eat.  Their employment is how they feed and shelter themselves.  I take things that could negatively impact people's ability to provide themselves with basic necessities very seriously. Slurring a company hurts revenues.  Revenues are how people get paid and remain employed.  It might all seem like a stretch "Oh, what does it hurt if I say one false thing!?"  but I just can't respect one acting with reckless disregard for the reputation of any person or business.

I'm a big fan Maslow's hierarchy of needs so that may explain it.  Food is a basic need required  much more important than feelings.  Hurt feelings never caused anyone difficulty in obtaining life's necessities.

Maybe that's where we most disagree:

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&client=Flamingvixen-a&hs=ibj&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=waffle+house+sucks&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

http://www.google.com/search?q=ihops+sucks&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=Flamingvixen-a

I can't see that people saying a place is horrendous actually makes any real difference to their bottom line. Proabably 99% of those posts are from real people reporting real experiences of an awful meal. And so? It certainly has no impact on my opinion of a place.