Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279

[Danika]

I didn't get the impression that OP expected to be notified earlier than she was. Just that the couple avoided people for those five months and that that was the weird part. In my first pregnancy, I accepted a new job offer the week that I found out I was pregnant. Normally, if I'd been at a company for a while, I would have told them at about 3 months pregnant, but because I didn't know these coworkers or how the boss would feel about me having to go on maternity leave within less than a year of starting there, I decided to not tell them for as long as I could. So, I wore baggy clothes and no one knew or suspected that I was pregnant until I told them at 6 1/2 months. But my behavior never changed. I was always friendly and professional, never standoffish and distant. I get the impression that that's what OP was focused on - the behavior, not the "secret" itself. That her friends were pulling away from everyone, and that it seems to be related to the pregnancy. But not that she or others were owed any information sooner.

I find myself agreeing with kokopellimom again in the whited out comments in post 165. I respect and understand an expectant family in that position withdrawing and avoiding addressing that issue or showing emotions to friends. But I would hope that the expecting couple would still tell friends "We have some things going on in our lives. We do not want to share or discuss them. Please, accept our apologies that we will be distant. We do not intend you any ill will" rather than just dodging them and *blaming* them. But I have fortunately never been in that position, so I can't say how they should be acting. Just how I would hope they would act, if that were the case.

[sparksals]

Well, it does sound a bit like the OP expected to be told earlier:

Keeping it secret for 5 months in of itself is not the issue, it's the fact they kept it from their closest friends, people they usually confide in, but said they told coworkers and entire family at 3 months.

[Samgirl2]

I didn't get the impression that OP expected to be notified earlier than she was. Just that the couple avoided people for those five months and that that was the weird part. In my first pregnancy, I accepted a new job offer the week that I found out I was pregnant. Normally, if I'd been at a company for a while, I would have told them at about 3 months pregnant, but because I didn't know these coworkers or how the boss would feel about me having to go on maternity leave within less than a year of starting there, I decided to not tell them for as long as I could. So, I wore baggy clothes and no one knew or suspected that I was pregnant until I told them at 6 1/2 months. But my behavior never changed. I was always friendly and professional, never standoffish and distant. I get the impression that that's what OP was focused on - the behavior, not the "secret" itself. That her friends were pulling away from everyone, and that it seems to be related to the pregnancy. But not that she or others were owed any information sooner.

I find myself agreeing with kokopellimom again in the whited out comments in post 165. I respect and understand an expectant family in that position withdrawing and avoiding addressing that issue or showing emotions to friends. But I would hope that the expecting couple would still tell friends "We have some things going on in our lives. We do not want to share or discuss them. Please, accept our apologies that we will be distant. We do not intend you any ill will" rather than just dodging them and *blaming* them. But I have fortunately never been in that position, so I can't say how they should be acting. Just how I would hope they would act, if that were the case.

Yes this is it exactly!

[Samgirl2]

Well, it does sound a bit like the OP expected to be told earlier:

Keeping it secret for 5 months in of itself is not the issue, it's the fact they kept it from their closest friends, people they usually confide in, but said they told coworkers and entire family at 3 months.

Just to clarify. I didn't expect to be told earlier, until they said other people already knew, then I felt that disappointed that I wasn't as close a friend as I had thought and they didn't think we deserved to know as much as coworkers etc. Also people generally tell at around 3 months (I know it's not a rule and people can do what they like) but it just seemed odd that they would wait that long (5 months) with friends.  That coupled with their distance confused me. I don't mean to sound whiney or like they should have said by a set date. Sorry for the confusion :-)

[evely28]

The part that jumps out at me is the OP saying her friend was unhappy that people were not offering 'help'. What help do you need when you announce a pregnancy? Yes, it is up to the expectant couple to announce the news when they see fit, however letting  someone know you expect their help is pretty passive aggressive. Again, what help do you need? Is the meanings of well wish'es over looked because you think well wish'es should accompany offers of help?

[sparksals]

Well, it does sound a bit like the OP expected to be told earlier:

Keeping it secret for 5 months in of itself is not the issue, it's the fact they kept it from their closest friends, people they usually confide in, but said they told coworkers and entire family at 3 months.

Just to clarify. I didn't expect to be told earlier, until they said other people already knew, then I felt that disappointed that I wasn't as close a friend as I had thought and they didn't think we deserved to know as much as coworkers etc. Also people generally tell at around 3 months (I know it's not a rule and people can do what they like) but it just seemed odd that they would wait that long (5 months) with friends.  That coupled with their distance confused me. I don't mean to sound whiney or like they should have said by a set date. Sorry for the confusion :-)

Oh... that makes more sense!  Thanks for clarifying!

[Hawkwatcher]

The part that jumps out at me is the OP saying her friend was unhappy that people were not offering 'help'. What help do you need when you announce a pregnancy? Yes, it is up to the expectant couple to announce the news when they see fit, however letting  someone know you expect their help is pretty passive aggressive. Again, what help do you need? Is the meanings of well wish'es over looked because you think well wish'es should accompany offers of help?

Samgirl2's friend initially rejected offers of help and claimed that they had family was helping them.  She then accused her friends including the OP of not offering to help.  She also accused the OP of not being happy for her.  I don't blame the Samgirl2 for being confused.

[Samgirl2]

UPDATE

Just had two emails from pregnant friend. Sounds back to normal in the first, then frustrating in the second.

1st:
So we had our usual weekly church group at my house on Weds. Pregnant friend and husband officially lead but as you know, not attended in absolute ages so we've been arranging it amongst ourselves.  So, because I'd hosted this week I sent out the usual reminder email the next day (yesterday) about where we were going to be meeting the following week, who was leading, and any points to remember. I copied this couple into the email out of courtesy and I just added a basic PS that we hoped they and the bump were doing ok. Didn't expect a response in the slightest.

She has just replied with
Hi there
Thanks so much! We are good thanks. Bump getting bigger and baby wriggling a lot – but all good!
Hope all is well with you and that you have some good news on the job front soon.
xx

So, sounds like her old self which is great and it doesn't seem to expect a reply which is fine with me. However I don't want to be rude, but  I can't pretend things are the same and be too friendly.

While I was thinking about this I received the second email....

2nd:
Two very good mutual friends of me and this couple are getting married soon and the hen and stag do's are happening on the same night, in 3 weeks time, and were organised back in December. Both pregnant friend and her husband had confirmed their attendance at the time for the respective events and then reconfirmed once all the activities were arranged. I don't know all the details of the stag do but pregnant friend's DH was definitely expected. Once we knew about the baby we made it clear pregnant friend was of course not expected to participate in anything too wild or stay out late or anything (the bride is teetotal and doesn't want any crazy clubbing or wild stuff anyway) like that but the bride would really like her there for some of it.. She said she was coming for pottery painting and dinner. She had to cancel the spa part of the afternoon because the venue say the temperature is unsafe was pregnant women.

I am organising the hen do with another friend. Earlier this week I sent out a general reminder email to everyone that the date was coming up and of where to be and when. Guests had already confirmed they were coming and we have paid deposits to the venues etc (pottery place is opening just for us, dinner required a deposit upfront etc). This was literally just a reminder.

She has just emailed to say the plans look great but unfortunately it is her husband's birthday and they will be celebrating with his sister and brother in law who will be visiting them for the weekend and so won't be attending either do. "Sorry about that but it sounds like you have lots of other people going. xx"

I find this really frustrating. It's not like they didn't know it was her husband's birthday (which is actually 2 days earlier, not that weekend) but they both committed to celebrating with these friends on the saturday and now have already made other arrangements and only told me because I sent out a reminder.

I feel like I cannot reply because to say what I want to say would cause trouble but to be polite and gracious is a bit beyond me at this minute!

Also not sure what to tell the bride. I don't want to hurt her feelings by saying this couple made other plans?


UPDATE part 2:
Have just spoken with the other girl (A) who is helping to organise the hen party.  She also received 2 emails from pregnant friend today. One saying how lovely it was to see A and her DH last night, they were so touched by the baby gift they dropped round, and then immediately followed that with the email about not coming to the hen do.

A says the hen do email was a statement of fact, she is not coming, and doesn't require a response.

Also interesting to note that A and her DH have had no contact whatsoever with this couple since before Christmas (apart from the party start of Feb where they announced the pregnancy) and so she and DH dropped round with a small baby gift last night to make they they spoke to them.  Pregnant friend's husband was there and invited them in for a cup of tea and was friendly and chatty but seemed very tired. He is doing DIY himself because pregnant friend can't help but still turned down A and her DH when they offered to help out.. Pregnant friend meanwhile was out for dinner with the other pregnant women from work and came in just as A and DH were leaving.....so she has no problems socialising. Just with us...

[DangerMouth]

"Sorry about that but it sounds like you have lots of other people going. xx"

"Yes, we do, no need to worry about being missed" (stuffs evil back into cage)

Looks like these folks have taken up permanent residence on Planet Us. I don't know what you can do about it but stop caring. I know that's hard, but it will get easier with time.

I also don't think it's your job to protect them from the consequenses of their self-centerednesss. One of these consequences is that they are hurting others (such as the bride). I know it will feel like you are the one who is hurting the brides feelings if you are honest with her about where xx is that night, but that's not true. But really, all you need to say is 'she couldn't make it' and beandip. I wouldn't even go so far as to say "she sends her regrets", but I'm you're probably a nicer person than I am.

[Adoptstrays]

I don't post very often so here is my first POD to Audrey Quest. You put into words exactly what I've been thinking since about page 5.

[Samgirl2]

AudreyQuest
I don't even know how to respond to this. You seem to have read what I wrote and understood the opposite!

By the way, no one has been 'commanded to attend' anything, Invites were sent out (after they knew she was prgenant, but we didn't), they said they were coming,. After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to and confirmed when we checked numbers later on for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

When I said the way I wanted to reply would cause trouble I meant reply to her, and only her. My response in my head is "what a surprise, whatever" and that would be rude so I would never say it.  I have not mentioned this to anyone other than the girl I am organising with and nor do I plan to.

Erm, I would tell the bride at some point because she has regularly asked who has rsvp'd and so she thinks they are coming to the stag and hen do.

No one is trying to hold anyone hostage. I think you are misunderstanding.  Two very good friends suddenly disappeared out of our lives completely for no obvious reason that we can see. Various people have tried to keep communication open and have been knocked back. I think that is called caring about your friends and checking if they are ok, and then eventually leaving them to it.

I do not think I have been judgemental - just stating the facts as they happen for anyone who was following the thread - and as I have said above, I have not responded to the emails and am leaving her alone.

[Lynn2000]

OP, I know this whole situation has been very frustrating and hurtful for you, and I think you're handling it well. I think the thing to do is what some others have advised... just start disengaging from caring about these people. It's easier said than done, I know, but they are not acting like friends to you or to many of the others they know (such as canceling plans they had already confirmed to go to another social event).

Sometimes for my own sanity I have had to disengage from people in my life who were just giving me too much drama. The temptation for me is to collect all the little facts and foibles and present them to other friends or advice-givers, like I'm building a "case"--I talked to Friend X and they said the person said THIS, but then Friend Y saw them out at dinner with the Smiths on Thursday and... I can feel myself being drawn into this obsessive web of negativity. And the thing I have to do in that case is just pull back, stop talking about it with anyone, stop even writing things down anywhere, think about other stuff, act like I'm not at all interested in talking about the drama queen in question. It might take a while, but usually this works to bring me to a better place.

That is just what happens to me, and I mention here because I thought maybe it would help you. I don't mean to discourage you from posting things here if you feel you need advice, but if you feel it's better for you to move on, don't feel you need to keep updating us. It sounds like this person doesn't really care what you or her other former friends are doing with their lives; maybe it's time for you to stop caring about what happens in HERS.

[anonymousmac]

Guests had already confirmed they were coming and we have paid deposits to the venues etc (pottery place is opening just for us, dinner required a deposit upfront etc). This was literally just a reminder.

Are the deposits per person, or for the group as a whole?

I think it would be perfectly polite to respond to her that when she confirmed she was coming, you put down a deposit for her, and if she's decided to change her mind, you'd like to be reimbursed.

AudreyQuest posted:

So what that they "confirmed" their attendance 3 months ago?  Their circumstances have changed and likely continue to change every day.

I strongly disagree with this.  They RSVP'd yes, and confirmed it again.  There's no medical emergency, and they knew they were pregnant when they said yes.  The only reason they want to cancel now is that they don't feel like it and want to celebrate the husband's birthday with someone else instead.  I think that's really rude behavior, and I think the OP has every right to react to that.

[Starchasm]

Guests had already confirmed they were coming and we have paid deposits to the venues etc (pottery place is opening just for us, dinner required a deposit upfront etc). This was literally just a reminder.

Are the deposits per person, or for the group as a whole?

I think it would be perfectly polite to respond to her that when she confirmed she was coming, you put down a deposit for her, and if she's decided to change her mind, you'd like to be reimbursed.

AudreyQuest posted:

So what that they "confirmed" their attendance 3 months ago?  Their circumstances have changed and likely continue to change every day.

I strongly disagree with this.  They RSVP'd yes, and confirmed it again.  There's no medical emergency, and they knew they were pregnant when they said yes.  The only reason they want to cancel now is that they don't feel like it and want to celebrate the husband's birthday with someone else instead.  I think that's really rude behavior, and I think the OP has every right to react to that.

I agree with anonymousmac. OP said:

Invites were sent out (after they knew she was pregnant, but we didn't), they said they were coming,. After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to and confirmed when we checked numbers later on for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

So she's been pregnant the whole time.  She confirmed three times, even after given the opportunity to back out. Then, weeks before the event, she made other plans and decided not to go.

It is never not rude to RSVP then decide not to go because something better came up.  "Backing out" for reasons other than a medical emergency or dinner at the White House is rude.

[Pinky830]

Guests had already confirmed they were coming and we have paid deposits to the venues etc (pottery place is opening just for us, dinner required a deposit upfront etc). This was literally just a reminder.

Are the deposits per person, or for the group as a whole?

I think it would be perfectly polite to respond to her that when she confirmed she was coming, you put down a deposit for her, and if she's decided to change her mind, you'd like to be reimbursed.

AudreyQuest posted:

So what that they "confirmed" their attendance 3 months ago?  Their circumstances have changed and likely continue to change every day.

I strongly disagree with this.  They RSVP'd yes, and confirmed it again.  There's no medical emergency, and they knew they were pregnant when they said yes.  The only reason they want to cancel now is that they don't feel like it and want to celebrate the husband's birthday with someone else instead.  I think that's really rude behavior, and I think the OP has every right to react to that.

I agree with anonymousmac. OP said:

Invites were sent out (after they knew she was pregnant, but we didn't), they said they were coming,. After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to and confirmed when we checked numbers later on for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

So she's been pregnant the whole time.  She confirmed three times, even after given the opportunity to back out. Then, weeks before the event, she made other plans and decided not to go.

It is never not rude to RSVP then decide not to go because something better came up.  "Backing out" for reasons other than a medical emergency or dinner at the White House is rude.

I completely agree. Also, the OP does understand that this couple has disengaged and she needs to move on. But she is understandably grieving the friendship.