Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279

[Samgirl2]

I am curious what the policy is for conflicts within such a small group as your home church group (you said only 9 people). Is there a leader of the group that you could talk to about this and get guidance from? You said the group involves sharing somewhat personal thoughts (e.g., what your prayers are for and "what is going on with" you); this woman's behavior would make me uncomfortable with sharing things in her presence, and that is surely the opposite of what the group leader would want. Also, I'm confused about how she could be fully participating in the group when she (and her husband) have been so withdrawn and have not shared important things. It may be that I just don't understand how the group works. But, if her behavior is changing the dynamics of the group and making people uncomfortable, perhaps the group leader needs to step in and counsel her or the other members. Is this a possibility?

you understand it right, that's the kicker, she and her husband are the official leaders :-(  

However we all take it in turns to host and lead discussion so that makes it a little easier to avoid direct conversation I guess.

There are two coordinators for all the groups who are senior staff within the church but I don't want to escalate the issue by going to them at this point in time. She announced last week that she and hubby wouldn't be leading for much longer (hinted at a couple more weeks maybe) because they had other priorities and although when another member asked if they would continue to come when they could, she said they would but I am doubtful that they actually will.

Part of me hopes they will stop coming and the part that remmebers how good things were wants them to stay or at least be around sometimes because I think they will need the support once the baby is here.

[Samgirl2]

I could be off base here, but is it possible the husband is jealous of your close relationship with his wife? If he has access to her email he could have intercepted your emails to her. Maybe he felt threatened by your offers of help (shopping, helping after baby is born etc), especially if their relationship is in a vulnerable state right now. He also could have misrepresented your face to face contact with him about this.

Even if this is true, it doesn't necessarily mean you can do anything about it.

I don't think this is the case. I have always had a good relationship with her husband and he has in the past told me he is glad we are friends and that I have been good for his wife, plus he has still been behaving normally with me when I have seen him (saying hi, asking how I am, smiling at jokes etc), it is only her that is being strange.

Also the emails have come from her work account so he can't have done anything to that.

I have noticed that all the opinions she has expressed and the accusations and the announcement about not leading our church group anymore (see post above) have come from her only but she has always used the term we to imply that they both feel that way. He however has remained silent on the matter.

I wonder if he can see that she is out of line but is trying to stay out of it and being loyal and maintaining a united front with his wife. Perhaps that is why he did not want to talk about her behaviour with me when I asked and then told her that I had spoken to him. Could it be he was telling her to talk to me and sort it out, although unfortunately that just led to the accusatory email about none of us caring enough...

I am a little angry that he cannot be honest though and is letting her do all the talking. When I replied to her accusatory email I made sure to CC him into the message as well because she had said they both felt hurt and so I was trying to make amends to both of them but he has never replied.  If he does agree with her then it looks a bit weak to not speak up with her and to let her do all the talking, and if he doesn't then he obviously never valued our friendship enough to tell me the truth either.

Honestly this whole situation is making me angry now. I was very hurt/upset/confused. Now I am just angry at being treated this way and to be quite honest while I still care about them and worry for them I do not want them in my life at the moment. However I do worry about doing anything that would give them grounds to think her opinions are correct or to think badly of me. I wish I didn't care but I do.

[bah12]

I understand why you feel the way you do and in a similar situation, I too, would feel hurt, angry, and confused.

That being said, it's not healthy or productive for you to keep worrying about this.  I understand that this is your best friend who is pushing you away for no apparent reason, but as others have said, this is her problem.  Not yours.  She's dragging herself down in a funk, but you don't have to go there with her.

Whatever is going on, whether it has something to do with the circumstances of the pregnancy, crazy hormones, or whatever, she has chosen to back off of the friendship.  You made the right decision to just let her do it and not contact her anymore.  As for seeing them around, going to the home church group, etc. I would just continue on as if she was never your BFF and you never had a falling out.  Let her be the one to say that someone needs to change groups and if she does say that, I would contact someone at the church who can possibly help sort through the logistics of that.  If she is the only one that wants you out, leader or not, others in the group can back you up...perhaps all the way to change of leadership....especially if right now she's not emotionally able to handle both leading the group and navigating the pregnancy and the baby that comes at the end of it.

As for her husband, it's very possible that he's telling her she needs to talk to you or that she's projecting things on to you that aren't your fault.  He probably does want to see her continue her old friendships.  The thing is, what he says to her in private is private.  I know that I had some crazy thoughts when I was pregnant and my poor DH tried his best to let me know that without upsetting me too much.  In the end, he was always on my side and regardless of what we discussed in private, he never went behind my back and said anything to my friends about it.  I think that your friend's husband is probably doing the same thing.  He's still friendly to you, so that is a good indication that he holds nothing against you, but if his wife has chosen to let go of the friendship, regardless of how he feels about it, he's choosing not to publically oppose her in that decision. 

I know this is hard and I know it's difficult to see a good friendship fall away and not have the answers you deserve.  The thing is, you may never get those answers and your friend may not even know why she feels the way she does.  The only thing you can do is accept that this is what it is.  There will be a mourning period for sure, but eventually, you'll find that things are probably working out for the best right now.

[JoyinVirginia]

I agree with other posters that you can only follow friend's lead, be coolly polite, and, like bah says, try to not dwell on this. You may get an answer one day, you may not, and it is normal to wonder and grieve the loss of a friendship. It doesn't really matter why, you can just respond to her current behavior and lack of contact.

There has been a lot of speculation about possible reasons for the change in behavior. Here is another possibility to add to the speculation. A few years ago I had a coworker who was bipolar and on some heavy duty medication to stabilize her mood. She wanted to get pregnant and in order to do that, had to go off her medications. The meds are not recommended for pregnant or nursing mothers. This was her second child and she shared with some of us coworkers who were very close to her what was going on, and she warned us that we would notice a change in her moods and behavior off the meds. And we DEFINITELY did. She was one personality on her meds, another personality off meds.

[Samgirl2]

Thanks everyone! 

[Raintree]

I would also not chase her any more, and be polite but no more than that at church functions. She may come around in time, when whatever is bothering her has passed and she realizes how badly she's treated you.

Myself, I have little patience for so-called friends who suddenly give me the cold shoulder for no apparent reason. It doesn't happen much, but when it does, I'm just not going to chase people saying, "What's wrong? Is it this? Is it that?" if they aren't forthcoming the first time I ask. I just refuse to play their games. Got a problem with me? Tell me, and give me an opportunity to explain myself if there is any explaining to be done.

But I don't think it's a problem with you. As PPs said, it sounds as though they are having their own problems and shutting other people out. My first thought too, was that the pregnancy was likely unplanned. Or perhaps her pregnancy hormones are wreaking havoc on her emotions. Whatever it is, just wait it out and see if she comes around.

[Ms_Shell]

I don't think this is the case. I have always had a good relationship with her husband and he has in the past told me he is glad we are friends and that I have been good for his wife, plus he has still been behaving normally with me when I have seen him (saying hi, asking how I am, smiling at jokes etc), it is only her that is being strange.

I wonder if he said that because his wife has a history of suddenly cutting off friends or otherwise acting out in toxic ways?  If that's the case, then you have evidence that it's not you, it's her.   

[Twik]

Honestly, it sounds to me like a combination of an unplanned pregnancy creating some underlying tension and some severe hormonal issues.

[GeauxTigers]

some severe hormonal issues.

POD - plus this:

Is it possible that prior to the pregnancy this woman was on certain medications? I'm not a doctor, and I certainly don't play one on TV, and I don't want to get this thread locked, but she may have been her happy, "normal" pre-pregnancy self due to antidepressants and/or other stabilizing medications - and now is unable to take them - and what the OP is seeing is her unmedicated "normal" state.

[auntiem]

some severe hormonal issues.

POD - plus this:

Is it possible that prior to the pregnancy this woman was on certain medications? I'm not a doctor, and I certainly don't play one on TV, and I don't want to get this thread locked, but she may have been her happy, "normal" pre-pregnancy self due to antidepressants and/or other stabilizing medications - and now is unable to take them - and what the OP is seeing is her unmedicated "normal" state.

I think this could be the cause actually.
But for some reason when I read the OP's initial account it sounded like they kept the secret for 5 month (understandable) and then when they made their big announcement she didn't get the big Bollywood song and dance reaction she was expecting and now she is sulking about it and taking it out on the OP (not understandable unless there is the medication issue).

[Samgirl2]

some severe hormonal issues.

POD - plus this:

Is it possible that prior to the pregnancy this woman was on certain medications? I'm not a doctor, and I certainly don't play one on TV, and I don't want to get this thread locked, but she may have been her happy, "normal" pre-pregnancy self due to antidepressants and/or other stabilizing medications - and now is unable to take them - and what the OP is seeing is her unmedicated "normal" state.

I think this could be the cause actually.
But for some reason when I read the OP's initial account it sounded like they kept the secret for 5 month (understandable) and then when they made their big announcement she didn't get the big Bollywood song and dance reaction she was expecting and now she is sulking about it and taking it out on the OP (not understandable unless there is the medication issue).

OP here again.


That makes so much sense GeauxTigers, when I think about it like that.  

Yes. Maybe to her, she has had this secret she's been keeping (for whatever reason, we won't know I guess) and so of course it hasn't seemed to her like she's been acting weird for 5 months because she knew the reason why. Then she announced it and it didn't get the reaction she was expecting, whatever that was, and now she's sulking. The way she's been behaving certainly does seem sulky!

But the rest of us just knew that this couple who were good friends seemed to pretty much disappear from our lives. They blamed work and being busy with renovations, but refused offers of help with that. We were left puzzled. Because I was closest to them previously, I asked after them, kept them up to date with what was going on and we still spoke by email everyday, but she would never meet up with me.  

Then we had a church social for a special occasion with some visitors and this couple came, she passed on the champagne, announced that they were having a baby and she was 5 months along. However it didn't seem like a planned announcement (plus she had to repeat it twice because not everyone heard) or even a particularly happy one, more of an embarassed one I think.  People were of course shocked because it was so unexpected and because she was so far along, but still congratulated them and all the usual stuff, but then what else is there to do until the baby is born really? Plus the reason for the party was already a special occasion for someone else and it was all a but strange. Maybe they expected more fuss somehow?

Then since then (nearly a month now) they still haven't really been around and she has gone completely cold on me, even told me not to email which was the only contact we had left at that point. Although from what I have gathered speaking to other friends, I'm the only one who took the trouble to try, or to offer help and to contact her directly during this whole period. Everyone else felt they were giving off 'privacy' vibes by being so absent and keeping the secret so long that they didn't bother.

I think maybe her judgement is completely clouded (possibly hormonal, possibly not) and she can't see it from anyone else's perspective. However there is no doubt in my mind now that she has severely over-reacted to these perceived insults to the news of their pregnancy. If she can't see that hiding something for that long from the person you said was your closest friend and telling them in no uncertain terms 'you do not have any right to know before anyone else' (that was part of the accusatory email as she thinks I accused her of lying to me in front of the whole party when what I actually said was 'wow, I can't believe you didn't tell me' and hugged her') and who you slowly cut yourself off from and now ignore in the street, even though they have tried to help you and have apologised for hurt feelings and told you that you mean a lot to them; if she can't see that isn't hurtful then I really know she is not herself.  If she is being herself then it was certainly well hidden.

Either way, I cannot see how I can think the same towards her again because even if this is a temporary blip it has ruined the way I see her now and I do not feel I can trust her. Of course if she has made this a permanent break then it won't matter....

[Pepper Saltzman]

I wouldn't take any excuses from her.  Hormones, pregnancy, medications, stress; none would be a good enough reason/excuse for me to take another chance with her. 

I hope you can put this behind you.  You seem to be very caring and that will net you plenty of mutually beneficial and deserving frienships.  This ... is not one of those.

[Twik]

some severe hormonal issues.

POD - plus this:

Is it possible that prior to the pregnancy this woman was on certain medications? I'm not a doctor, and I certainly don't play one on TV, and I don't want to get this thread locked, but she may have been her happy, "normal" pre-pregnancy self due to antidepressants and/or other stabilizing medications - and now is unable to take them - and what the OP is seeing is her unmedicated "normal" state.

I think this could be the cause actually.
But for some reason when I read the OP's initial account it sounded like they kept the secret for 5 month (understandable) and then when they made their big announcement she didn't get the big Bollywood song and dance reaction she was expecting and now she is sulking about it and taking it out on the OP (not understandable unless there is the medication issue).

I agree that it may be a big part of it - but hormones are also a possibility. I would put the relationship on hold, not cut it off entirely, until the baby has been born, *and* she's had time to reestablish normal body chemistry.

If after all that time she's *still* sulking, then it's her. But even a normally good person may turn into something very different during/immediately after pregnancy. What is it one doctor said? "There are more hormonal differences between the pregnant and non-pregnant state, than between a man and a woman."

[ClaireC79]

is it possible she thought you already knew, and so was offended at you ignoring the pregnancy and therefore was annoyed at having to tell you all at 5 months because her her mind 'duh of course I'm pregnant I told them all at Christmas so I have to state the obivous'

[Samgirl2]

is it possible she thought you already knew, and so was offended at you ignoring the pregnancy and therefore was annoyed at having to tell you all at 5 months because her her mind 'duh of course I'm pregnant I told them all at Christmas so I have to state the obivous'

OP here.

Nope, no way. She had come up with all sorts of reasons not to be at things for months so people hadn't seen her, and she had never even hinted at it in email conversations. They had very much kept it hidden.