Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279

[Samgirl2]

AudreyQuest:

When I say we, I am referring to the 3/4 very close friends I have shared this with because they asked me what was going on with this couple as I was closest to them and we have discussed it a couple of times during the course of catching up and general chatting. I think that is completely natural.  In our wider social circle there are over 20 people. In our church there are hundreds. Therefore I resent the accusation that I am gossiping about them.

I post on here because it is anonymous and it helps me gather my thoughts. it is better for me to do that than to gossip about them to others as you put it. Perhaps the amount i have posted has given you the wrong impression of how much interaction there has been between us recently.

As far as being able to participate in the hen do activities. A small number of friends are going for a spa afternoon (she was to be one because the bride counted her as a close friend, but of course cannot now because of the pregnancy, that is not an issue) and then others were to join the party in the early evening for pottery painting in a local workshop followed by dinner and the bride doesn't drink alcohol so it will not be a wild affair. You make it sound as if we were asking her to go drinking or pole dancing!

You also seem to be focusing on the fact that we are part of a church community and that we are somehow judging. holding them to ransom and bothering them etc because of that. I don't know if you have issues with organised religion but it is simply that church is the common interest here and it is at church activities that we would usually come across each other. It is not that we are some kind of cult who cannot let members go.

[Starchasm]

Invites were sent out (after they knew she was pregnant, but we didn't), they said they were coming, (1). After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to (2)and confirmed when we checked numbers later on (3) for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

So she's been pregnant the whole time.  She confirmed three times, even after given the opportunity to back out. Then, weeks before the event, she made other plans and decided not to go.

It is never not rude to RSVP then decide not to go because something better came up.  "Backing out" for reasons other than a medical emergency or dinner at the White House is rude.

It was twice that they confirmed and I don't really see the second time as being very committed.
 
I also doubt that their decision not to go has to do with "something better coming along."  I think it has everything to do with not wanting to be a part of this church community anymore.
 
Actually, I think them not attending should have been expected.

I read it as three times (numbered above) but the wording is kind of ambiguous.

Regardless, etiquette does not require that anyone be psychic.  Organizers should not have to second guess a guest's intentions.  "Well she said she was going to come, but did she REALLY mean it?"  They took her at her word, at least twice, that she would show up for the activities she was comfortable with.  If she did not want to come she should have just said so, particularly prior to any deposits being paid.

Canceling an activity to do something else with other people is rude.  Period.

[Samgirl2]

Invites were sent out (after they knew she was pregnant, but we didn't), they said they were coming, (1). After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to (2)and confirmed when we checked numbers later on (3) for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

So she's been pregnant the whole time.  She confirmed three times, even after given the opportunity to back out. Then, weeks before the event, she made other plans and decided not to go.

It is never not rude to RSVP then decide not to go because something better came up.  "Backing out" for reasons other than a medical emergency or dinner at the White House is rude.

It was twice that they confirmed and I don't really see the second time as being very committed.
 
I also doubt that their decision not to go has to do with "something better coming along."  I think it has everything to do with not wanting to be a part of this church community anymore.
 
Actually, I think them not attending should have been expected.

I read it as three times (numbered above) but the wording is kind of ambiguous.

Regardless, etiquette does not require that anyone be psychic.  Organizers should not have to second guess a guest's intentions.  "Well she said she was going to come, but did she REALLY mean it?"  They took her at her word, at least twice, that she would show up for the activities she was comfortable with.  If she did not want to come she should have just said so, particularly prior to any deposits being paid.

Canceling an activity to do something else with other people is rude.  Period.

Yes, 3 times is correct.

[wyozozo]

It was twice that they confirmed and I don't really see the second time as being very committed.

Once, twice or 5000 times, once you confirm you follow through. To not do so without a VERY good reason is rude.

[Samgirl2]

AudreyQuest

I am not trying to criticise or judge them or be angry. I am confused, I am putting everything on the table and seeing what people think.

You obviously have your opinion, thanks for giving it, but I disagree with it and I cannot get into this.

[Dindrane]

Audrey,

First point: it is a basic tenet of etiquette (like REALLY basic) that once you have said you will attend something, it is rude to back out because you decided you'd really rather do something else.  There are acceptable reasons to back out of a commitment of this nature, but this situation is not one of them.

Second point: you obviously think that how the OP is behaving is incorrect.  However, at this point, you've said it multiple times, at length.  The OP obviously does not agree with your interpretation of events, and at this point, you really just sound like you're berating her, and trying to "prove" that she has been judgmental.  None of us were there, so it seems to me that we all ought to be giving the OP at least some benefit of the doubt.  It sounds to me like you are putting the worst spin you can imagine on what she has said, and if that's not your intent, you might want to think about how you're phrasing your opinions.

Finally, I think the OP would be best served, at this point, by cutting her losses and trying to forget about this woman and her husband.  But that doesn't change the fact that the behavior exhibited is very confusing, hurtful, and occasionally rude.  If the former friend and her husband don't want to be friends with the OP's social circle, they don't have to, but it sends an incredibly mixed message for them to play hot and cold.  If they wanted to escape so badly, all they'd have to do is stop being available, stop answering emails, and stop going to group events.  If they did that, people would assuredly stop trying to see or include them far more quickly than if the couple maintains sporadic and confusing contact.

[hobish]

Samgirl doesn't deserve a verbal beatdown.

Samgirl isn't demonizing anyone. She is confused by a friends actions, hurt, and looking for advice. Maybe you disagree; but demonizing? That's what you call being hurt and confused? I don't get it.


Everyone's circumstances change all the time. Backing out of something you had committed to three times over - because it is your husband's birthday, something they surely were aware of, and decided to go away for the weekend instead is cancelling for better plans. Assign whatever motive you like to it; but that is exactly what it is. This being an etiquette board and all, a person is allowed to frown on that and not expect to be badgered for it.

Samgirl ... i wish i knew what to tell you. I don't think you are demonizing anyone, or anything of the sort. In your shoes i would be cautiously trying to figure out what happened to my friend, too.

[Dindrane]

I agree completely [with Hobish].

I think it's time to let the friendship go, not because it's wrong to be concerned, but because the cost of your attempt to maintain this friendship has become quite high.  For your own sanity, I suggest you take a big step back from it, and try to just ignore what this person does or says.

At least ignore it for a few months, and just take it from there.  Getting a break from worrying about it will probably give you some perspective about the whole thing, and a clearer head regarding how you want to approach this in the future.

ETA: forgot a couple words

[DangerMouth]

Just wanted say I agree with Dindrane and Hobish here. You've both saved me from trying to organize my thoughts as coherently as you have.

[Danika]

Samgirl2, I think, if it's cathartic for you to discuss this here, then go for it. I don't feel that you are demonizing your former friend. I get the impression that you're just saying "I had a friend who presented the illusion that we were close and that she was warm, friendly and reliable and now I'm finding a lot of evidence that none of those things are true. I'm trying to figure out if she's in pain and I can help her, or if she had just shown me one side of her character in the past and now I'm seeing her true colors." The fact that her husband doesn't indicate that there's anything wrong with her night and day difference in behavior makes it seem as if he was complicit in her duplicity (for lack of a better phrase and description).

I like detective stories, so I'm interested in this saga as it continues to unfold. But mainly, I've been in your shoes, as many of us have, and I feel your pain and I can see it in your words and I want to help you unravel this mystery because I have analyzed and overanalyzed situations like this in my life. And only by seeing all the facts presented to me, was I able to come to some closure or acceptance. I wanted to make sure that I had a clear conscience and had never hurt a close friend. I wanted to make sure that there was nothing I could do to recapture our close friendship because it had been meaningful to me.

The good news is that this really is a "it's her, and not you" thing. The good and bad news is that this probably isn't the last time in your life that you'll lose a close friendship in such a cryptic manner, but with experience, you will get better at coming to terms with the fact that the chapter has ended and the book is closed and all you can do is put it back on the shelf and move on to another book.

And a word of advice to your mutual friend, the bride. I hope she appreciates that the pregnant girl's actions have indicated that no matter what the response on the RSVP card says, pregnant girl and husband will likely not show up at the wedding.

[Raintree]

I sympathize with Samgirl, but I also agree with Audrey Quest that there may be some valid reason they are withdrawing from that particular community (happens to be church, but could be any community where people come together and feel connected). Just let them be. In time, you may find out what it's all about. But they have their reasons, and it sounds as though it's not personal against Samgirl.

[sammycat]

Samgirl2, I think, if it's cathartic for you to discuss this here, then go for it. I don't feel that you are demonizing your former friend. I get the impression that you're just saying "I had a friend who presented the illusion that we were close and that she was warm, friendly and reliable and now I'm finding a lot of evidence that none of those things are true. I'm trying to figure out if she's in pain and I can help her, or if she had just shown me one side of her character in the past and now I'm seeing her true colors." The fact that her husband doesn't indicate that there's anything wrong with her night and day difference in behavior makes it seem as if he was complicit in her duplicity (for lack of a better phrase and description).

I like detective stories, so I'm interested in this saga as it continues to unfold. But mainly, I've been in your shoes, as many of us have, and I feel your pain and I can see it in your words and I want to help you unravel this mystery because I have analyzed and overanalyzed situations like this in my life. And only by seeing all the facts presented to me, was I able to come to some closure or acceptance. I wanted to make sure that I had a clear conscience and had never hurt a close friend. I wanted to make sure that there was nothing I could do to recapture our close friendship because it had been meaningful to me.

The good news is that this really is a "it's her, and not you" thing. The good and bad news is that this probably isn't the last time in your life that you'll lose a close friendship in such a cryptic manner, but with experience, you will get better at coming to terms with the fact that the chapter has ended and the book is closed and all you can do is put it back on the shelf and move on to another book.

And a word of advice to your mutual friend, the bride. I hope she appreciates that the pregnant girl's actions have indicated that no matter what the response on the RSVP card says, pregnant girl and husband will likely not show up at the wedding.

I so totally and utterly agree with this entire post!

[Samgirl2]

Samgirl2, I think, if it's cathartic for you to discuss this here, then go for it. I don't feel that you are demonizing your former friend. I get the impression that you're just saying "I had a friend who presented the illusion that we were close and that she was warm, friendly and reliable and now I'm finding a lot of evidence that none of those things are true. I'm trying to figure out if she's in pain and I can help her, or if she had just shown me one side of her character in the past and now I'm seeing her true colors." The fact that her husband doesn't indicate that there's anything wrong with her night and day difference in behavior makes it seem as if he was complicit in her duplicity (for lack of a better phrase and description).

I like detective stories, so I'm interested in this saga as it continues to unfold. But mainly, I've been in your shoes, as many of us have, and I feel your pain and I can see it in your words and I want to help you unravel this mystery because I have analyzed and overanalyzed situations like this in my life. And only by seeing all the facts presented to me, was I able to come to some closure or acceptance. I wanted to make sure that I had a clear conscience and had never hurt a close friend. I wanted to make sure that there was nothing I could do to recapture our close friendship because it had been meaningful to me.

The good news is that this really is a "it's her, and not you" thing. The good and bad news is that this probably isn't the last time in your life that you'll lose a close friendship in such a cryptic manner, but with experience, you will get better at coming to terms with the fact that the chapter has ended and the book is closed and all you can do is put it back on the shelf and move on to another book.

And a word of advice to your mutual friend, the bride. I hope she appreciates that the pregnant girl's actions have indicated that no matter what the response on the RSVP card says, pregnant girl and husband will likely not show up at the wedding.

Yes! This is it exactly!!!! Bolded bits are exactly how I feel!

[Wordgeek]

AudreyQuest, please step away from the thread.  Your name calling is inappropriate, and I deleted your last post.

I also edited out a few references to that last post.  When someone has stepped out of line, it's best not to engage.

[EMuir]

Samgirl2, I feel for you and I think that your friend is absolutely being rude.  I have withdrawn from friendships before and I never went hot and cold like they are.  They are acting in a confusing manner.  For your own health I think you need to assume your close friendship with her is over. I'm very sorry about that.