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Author Topic: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread  (Read 2412601 times)

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Mental Magpie

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7470 on: April 24, 2013, 05:19:13 PM »
It's not a grammar quirk, though, it's using the wrong word all together. That's like saying its a grammar quirk to say blue when you really mean spotted.

WillyNilly

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7471 on: April 24, 2013, 05:52:08 PM »
It's not a grammar quirk, though, it's using the wrong word all together. That's like saying its a grammar quirk to say blue when you really mean spotted.

Personally I think homophones are grammar quirks.

Two words that are pronounced the same and used similarly (then is an adverb, than is a conjunction... which is a word often used with an adverb), and spelt very similarly, to me is a quirky recipe for grammatical disaster.  :)

Iris

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7472 on: April 24, 2013, 06:07:38 PM »
It's not a grammar quirk, though, it's using the wrong word all together. That's like saying its a grammar quirk to say blue when you really mean spotted.

Personally I think homophones are grammar quirks.

Two words that are pronounced the same and used similarly (then is an adverb, than is a conjunction... which is a word often used with an adverb), and spelt very similarly, to me is a quirky recipe for grammatical disaster.  :)

They aren't homophones to the rest of us who speak English (Australia here) though. I don't say then and than at all similarly and until 2 minutes ago it didn't occur to me that anyone could mix them up because to me they are two totally separate and distinct words with completely different meanings - to me than is a comparing word (to put it simply) "I'd rather X than Y" and then is used to order things chronologically "I'd rather do X and then do Y". That's a massive oversimplification of course, but just to show my point.

Though in fairness given the number of people over here who mix up their, there and they're I suppose now I know that you guys pronounce them as homophones it shouldn't surprise me...
"Can't do anything with children, can you?" the woman said.

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jpcher

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7473 on: April 24, 2013, 06:12:07 PM »
Spoken out loud I believe that it's an accent thing (like pronouncing the word Milk or is it Melk?) and should be given leeway due to accent.

Written word, however, should be spelled correctly. Your and You're sound the same when spoken, but in written context mean different things, just like then and than.


Mental Magpie

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7474 on: April 24, 2013, 06:21:32 PM »
Spoken out loud I believe that it's an accent thing (like pronouncing the word Milk or is it Melk?) and should be given leeway due to accent.

Written word, however, should be spelled correctly. Your and You're sound the same when spoken, but in written context mean different things, just like then and than.

This.


I think where we disagree, WillyNilly, is that I don't think they're used similarly at all.  I also don't hear them as homophones, but as above, I give them leeway due to differing accents.

Elfmama

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7475 on: April 24, 2013, 06:29:26 PM »
It's not a grammar quirk, though, it's using the wrong word all together. That's like saying its a grammar quirk to say blue when you really mean spotted.

Personally I think homophones are grammar quirks.

Two words that are pronounced the same and used similarly (then is an adverb, than is a conjunction... which is a word often used with an adverb), and spelt very similarly, to me is a quirky recipe for grammatical disaster.  :)

They aren't homophones to the rest of us who speak English (Australia here) though. I don't say then and than at all similarly and until 2 minutes ago it didn't occur to me that anyone could mix them up because to me they are two totally separate and distinct words with completely different meanings - to me than is a comparing word (to put it simply) "I'd rather X than Y" and then is used to order things chronologically "I'd rather do X and then do Y". That's a massive oversimplification of course, but just to show my point.

Though in fairness given the number of people over here who mix up their, there and they're I suppose now I know that you guys pronounce them as homophones it shouldn't surprise me...
One of the most frequent homophones in parts of the US are short-e/short-i words.  Pen and pin, ten and tin are all pronounced with the same vowel sounds.  People in the SCA are reminded by our Board of Directors to use the words "Middle Ages" and not "medieval" because people with certain accents hear the latter as "mid-evil."  I've heard first-hand accounts from one Baron that a co-worker got very upset about "why they pretended to be even a little bit evil."  Further questioning revealed that the coworker thought the Middle Ages were called "mid-evil" because they WERE moderately evil, because "they didn't know as much about God and Jesus then as we do now."
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VorFemme

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7476 on: April 24, 2013, 07:45:23 PM »
(edited) People in the SCA are reminded by our Board of Directors to use the words "Middle Ages" and not "medieval" because people with certain accents hear the latter as "mid-evil."  I've heard first-hand accounts from one Baron that a co-worker got very upset about "why they pretended to be even a little bit evil."  Further questioning revealed that the coworker thought the Middle Ages were called "mid-evil" because they WERE moderately evil, because "they didn't know as much about God and Jesus then as we do now."

 :o What?  ??? You've got to be kidding  :'( wait, not everyone is a history minor    :P So you're not kidding.

That the Middle Ages knew less about Christian values or were LESS concerned about religion in daily life really, really amazes me. 

But then I remember a few people I went to school with and I remember that they were amazed that I didn't care about FASHION and thought current events wasn't a synonym for what I called "gossip". 
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I explain?

stitchygreyanonymouse

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7477 on: April 24, 2013, 07:47:35 PM »
(edited) People in the SCA are reminded by our Board of Directors to use the words "Middle Ages" and not "medieval" because people with certain accents hear the latter as "mid-evil."  I've heard first-hand accounts from one Baron that a co-worker got very upset about "why they pretended to be even a little bit evil."  Further questioning revealed that the coworker thought the Middle Ages were called "mid-evil" because they WERE moderately evil, because "they didn't know as much about God and Jesus then as we do now."

 :o What?  ??? You've got to be kidding  :'( wait, not everyone is a history minor    :P So you're not kidding.

That the Middle Ages knew less about Christian values or were LESS concerned about religion in daily life really, really amazes me. 

But then I remember a few people I went to school with and I remember that they were amazed that I didn't care about FASHION and thought current events wasn't a synonym for what I called "gossip".

Iím pretty sure these are the same people that eat "freedom fries", "angel eggs", and "jesus food cake".

WillyNilly

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7478 on: April 24, 2013, 07:50:33 PM »
Ok I never thought anything of the "evil" part to the word, but I've also never heard "medieval" pronounced in some other way that didn't sound like mid-evil.

I just thought that was the word, like how I never thought words the end in a "tion" sound like education, mediation, or celebration had any association with "shun" or shunning someone. I never associated medieval with evil, but its definitely the way the end of the word sounds IME.

Iris

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7479 on: April 24, 2013, 07:52:41 PM »
(edited) People in the SCA are reminded by our Board of Directors to use the words "Middle Ages" and not "medieval" because people with certain accents hear the latter as "mid-evil."  I've heard first-hand accounts from one Baron that a co-worker got very upset about "why they pretended to be even a little bit evil."  Further questioning revealed that the coworker thought the Middle Ages were called "mid-evil" because they WERE moderately evil, because "they didn't know as much about God and Jesus then as we do now."

 :o What?  ??? You've got to be kidding  :'( wait, not everyone is a history minor    :P So you're not kidding.

That the Middle Ages knew less about Christian values or were LESS concerned about religion in daily life really, really amazes me. 

But then I remember a few people I went to school with and I remember that they were amazed that I didn't care about FASHION and thought current events wasn't a synonym for what I called "gossip".

Iím pretty sure these are the same people that eat "freedom fries", "angel eggs", and "jesus food cake".


I haven't studied any history at all since 1984 (not kidding) and even my brain hurt at that one.
"Can't do anything with children, can you?" the woman said.

Poirot thought you could, but forebore to say so.

Hmmmmm

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7480 on: April 24, 2013, 08:02:49 PM »
Perhaps this is more one for the pronunciation thread, but in my interactions with Americans on various forums I've noticed several of them writing the word 'then' instead of 'than'. For example: 'My car is bigger then yours'.

Are the two words pronounced the same and if so I wonder if so whether people are writing them phonetically? I honestly can't see how the two words could be mixed up any other way and I notice it often enough for it not to be a quirk with one person.

In my experience, they're pronounced exactly the same.
American here. I pronounce them differently but they are close enough that I might  mistakenly type one when I mean the other. Like typing too when I mean to. Or their when I mean there.

Mental Magpie

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7481 on: April 24, 2013, 08:11:45 PM »
Ok I never thought anything of the "evil" part to the word, but I've also never heard "medieval" pronounced in some other way that didn't sound like mid-evil.

I just thought that was the word, like how I never thought words the end in a "tion" sound like education, mediation, or celebration had any association with "shun" or shunning someone. I never associated medieval with evil, but its definitely the way the end of the word sounds IME.

Pod to all of this.

MrsJWine

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7482 on: April 24, 2013, 11:36:09 PM »
Ok I never thought anything of the "evil" part to the word, but I've also never heard "medieval" pronounced in some other way that didn't sound like mid-evil.

I just thought that was the word, like how I never thought words the end in a "tion" sound like education, mediation, or celebration had any association with "shun" or shunning someone. I never associated medieval with evil, but its definitely the way the end of the word sounds IME.

Same here. I've always pronounced it "mid-evil." I've never heard a difference in pronunciation, either.


I have a blog.  I hate that word.


Utah

perpetua

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7483 on: April 25, 2013, 01:50:17 AM »
It's not a grammar quirk, though, it's using the wrong word all together. That's like saying its a grammar quirk to say blue when you really mean spotted.

Personally I think homophones are grammar quirks.

Two words that are pronounced the same and used similarly (then is an adverb, than is a conjunction... which is a word often used with an adverb), and spelt very similarly, to me is a quirky recipe for grammatical disaster.  :)

They aren't homophones to the rest of us who speak English (Australia here) though. I don't say then and than at all similarly and until 2 minutes ago it didn't occur to me that anyone could mix them up because to me they are two totally separate and distinct words with completely different meanings - to me than is a comparing word (to put it simply) "I'd rather X than Y" and then is used to order things chronologically "I'd rather do X and then do Y". That's a massive oversimplification of course, but just to show my point.

Though in fairness given the number of people over here who mix up their, there and they're I suppose now I know that you guys pronounce them as homophones it shouldn't surprise me...

Yeah, this is what I wasn't understanding. To me it's akin to using 'blue' and 'shoe' interchangeably because they sound a bit similar, even though they mean completely different things.

Similarly, I've noticed a lot of people writing 'thot' instead of 'thought'.

Pen^2

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #7484 on: April 25, 2013, 03:09:10 AM »
Ok I never thought anything of the "evil" part to the word, but I've also never heard "medieval" pronounced in some other way that didn't sound like mid-evil.

I just thought that was the word, like how I never thought words the end in a "tion" sound like education, mediation, or celebration had any association with "shun" or shunning someone. I never associated medieval with evil, but its definitely the way the end of the word sounds IME.

Same here. I've always pronounced it "mid-evil." I've never heard a difference in pronunciation, either.

I've never heard "mid-evil" as the pronunciation. How odd! I've only ever heard "medi-evil".

It was traditionally spelled "mediaeval" (with that ligature thing that I don't know how to type), so the i and the e should not be run together into a single sound, keeping it as a four-syllable word. It's from the Latin, medium aevum, literally "middle age". Nothing to do with evil, although I like that idea more. It implies a "maxevil" age, or something, and I'd love to know when that was.