Author Topic: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread  (Read 837007 times)

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Elfmama

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8625 on: October 18, 2013, 10:19:18 PM »
Regarding the oddities of English spelling vs. pronunciation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g10jFL423ho starting at about 2:55.
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Ereine

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8626 on: October 18, 2013, 10:38:00 PM »
I have read that France *hates* having words from other languages slip into use - so they have some kind of official group that looks at "new" things and comes up with a PROPER French term for it, if at all possible...there might be a couple of other languages that do the same, but little hybrid words keep popping up on the internet....

Finland has a such group, Kielitoimisto, the language office that gives suggestions on language use and new words. Sometimes they stick (unlike most of our neighbours we don't used a word derived from telephone for example) but we do have loan words, like radio, televisio and internet. I think that it often depends on how easily the word fits Finnish and the strange things we have to do to words.

Carotte

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8627 on: October 19, 2013, 08:02:44 AM »

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

It was also how I was taught how to read as a young child in Australia in the 70s. So it's not a newfangled technique. IME it works. My mum (now a retired teacher) speaks very highly of it as an approach.

I didn't realise how long phonics had been around - 19th century - till I checked out the Wikipedia entry after seeing this question. Looks like it's still considered an effective technique in schools here.
That's how I was taught to read also, by my mother.  My classmates were taught by the "look and say" method, where they were somehow supposed to recognize words by their shapes. ::) I was reading fluently in first grade, and went on to chapter books in second grade.  (Teacher read us a chapter of a book every day. I was too impatient waiting to find out how Ozma of Oz ended, so I checked it out of the library! :D )

I left that school in the middle of the 8th grade, and my classmates were STILL read. ing. one. syl. la. ble. word. at. a. time.  (Strike 'syllable' -- a long word like that the teacher had to prompt them on.) As a child I never could understand why they had so much trouble, when it was as easy as breathing.

The thing is, she already knew how to read, it wasn't about sounding out words by the syllable, but about spelling them.
It would make sense to use the same technique for kids learning to read, but for kids already reading, it seems counterproductive to keep them saying "kaa" and not "see" for the letter C. I would have been utterly lost if she had spelled say her street name this way.
Maybe her classmates aren't there yet, I don't know much about 8/9 years old...

I forgot which technique was used to teach me to read, I just know it must have been the shaping stone for my learning disability, in a weird way, I learned to read without a problem, coupled with understanding what I read above grade level, but in a dyslexic kind of way, I don't care how it's written so I don't 'care' how I write it (double letters even when they don't make the same sound, ending words the way (plural/conjugated) they are meant to, accents like and that I don't 'hear'...).
Grammar and stuff like that doesn't stick, the errors I make in English or Portuguese are the same (double letters) and even tho I have a pretty good (not perfect) grasp of the language I also know and 'use' about zero grammar rule.
So yeah, English is still easier than French in that aspect :)

kherbert05

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8628 on: October 19, 2013, 08:34:04 AM »
Teaching reading - you have to teach it all phonics, sight words, guided reading. No one method is going to work with all kids. But you get administrators that get wedded to a particular method or state legislatures that are required to send billions out of the country to the be all end all company (Pearson) and the kids and teachers are the victims.


My Mom used to tell a story about how Sis got to JH and the teachers asked "What happened the kids can spell" - Mom's reply they stopped teaching only phonics. Drove my Mom crazy I would spell words completely phonetically. Words that I could read fine, I would spell wrong.


Our administrators fell in love with a particular lock step math program. We had a lesson a day that we had to teach. If administration came in 15 minutes into your lesson you had better be at Point X in the script. There is an intro video that was a bad film strip converted into flash. It gave us 1 day to teach adding 2 digit numbers to 1 digit numbers with regrouping (carrying) for example. A couple of years into that program and the secondary math teachers were tearing their hair out. They were getting kids with no number sense, no problem solving, and pretty much no math skills. Now we are back to concrete, pictorial, abstract. We are going to spend all of next week on adding 2 digit by 1 digit with regrouping. We will use unifix cubes, and pictures along with the algorithm.
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Krism

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8629 on: October 19, 2013, 07:20:44 PM »


SQ#2, of which I think I know the answer: My second favorite part of the fair are the animals.  Do the farmers bring their animals to the fair and essentially live there for the 10 days?  I say "I know the answer", as I spotted a lot of campers and RV's near the barns  ::).  Also, most are from pretty distant parts of the state, or from neighboring states.

When I was a kid in high school that's what we did, there was a large section of the fairgrounds set aside for us to put campers, no tents though, unfortunately.  You have to pretty much be there all day, feed them in the morning and at night, keep their bedding clean - it just makes sense to stay there. Also part of the 4-H experience was to talk to the people who walked through the barns, a lot of them "city folk" about the animals and farm life.

Virg

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8630 on: October 21, 2013, 12:56:58 PM »
guihong wrote:

"My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?"

I'm sure there's some reason that I don't know about, but if I had to guess I'd say that it makes it easier to see what's in the jars, rather than looking at a sea of metal lids.

Virg


lady_disdain

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8631 on: October 21, 2013, 01:49:15 PM »
guihong wrote:

"My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?"

I'm sure there's some reason that I don't know about, but if I had to guess I'd say that it makes it easier to see what's in the jars, rather than looking at a sea of metal lids.

Virg



Virg, Diane gave the reason a few posts behind:

Quote
It's easier to open that way, because the vacuum is at the bottom (which is currently at the top), because all of the product has settled at the top (which is currently at the bottom.)

Harriet Jones

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8632 on: October 21, 2013, 09:46:57 PM »
guihong wrote:

"My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?"

I'm sure there's some reason that I don't know about, but if I had to guess I'd say that it makes it easier to see what's in the jars, rather than looking at a sea of metal lids.

Virg



Virg, Diane gave the reason a few posts behind:

Quote
It's easier to open that way, because the vacuum is at the bottom (which is currently at the top), because all of the product has settled at the top (which is currently at the bottom.)

Why would that matter for the state fair, though?  It would make more sense for it to be a display thing for those walking by and looking at the jars.

artk2002

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8633 on: October 22, 2013, 04:02:30 PM »
I went to the State Fair today with DD15.  My favorite part is the arts and crafts, and all the canned things. 

My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?

It's easier to open that way, because the vacuum is at the bottom (which is currently at the top), because all of the product has settled at the top (which is currently at the bottom.)

Do you have any evidence for that? From a general physics standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The entire contents of the jar, whether it's the food or the small amount of air, is going to be under the same (negative) pressure. Unless the contents of the jar are very, very thick, the air (not vacuum) will rise to the top when you turn it right side up to open. I'm certainly not going to try to open a jar of pickles or strawberry jam without turning it with the lid towards the top.

Sorry, but that sounds like a piece of folk-wisdom to me.
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cwm

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8634 on: October 22, 2013, 04:33:51 PM »
I went to the State Fair today with DD15.  My favorite part is the arts and crafts, and all the canned things. 

My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?

It's easier to open that way, because the vacuum is at the bottom (which is currently at the top), because all of the product has settled at the top (which is currently at the bottom.)

Do you have any evidence for that? From a general physics standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The entire contents of the jar, whether it's the food or the small amount of air, is going to be under the same (negative) pressure. Unless the contents of the jar are very, very thick, the air (not vacuum) will rise to the top when you turn it right side up to open. I'm certainly not going to try to open a jar of pickles or strawberry jam without turning it with the lid towards the top.

Sorry, but that sounds like a piece of folk-wisdom to me.

Well, I know there is a way to can low-acid foods by hot-packing and inverting them. It's not very recommended any longer because the vacuum seal isn't very strong, but perhaps these were inversion-canned and the vendor doesn't want to re-invert them for display for some reason.

Just a thought, don't know about physics.

squeakers

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8635 on: October 22, 2013, 04:36:55 PM »
I went to the State Fair today with DD15.  My favorite part is the arts and crafts, and all the canned things. 

My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?

It's easier to open that way, because the vacuum is at the bottom (which is currently at the top), because all of the product has settled at the top (which is currently at the bottom.)

Do you have any evidence for that? From a general physics standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The entire contents of the jar, whether it's the food or the small amount of air, is going to be under the same (negative) pressure. Unless the contents of the jar are very, very thick, the air (not vacuum) will rise to the top when you turn it right side up to open. I'm certainly not going to try to open a jar of pickles or strawberry jam without turning it with the lid towards the top.

Sorry, but that sounds like a piece of folk-wisdom to me.

You don't open the jar while it's upside down... but tipping it upside down and then back does something because it does seem to help "break the seal".  It doesn't work on peanut butter because the air doesn't go anywhere.  But with pickles and salsa the air moves to the bottom and then back to the top but maybe not all at once? Thus the vacuum isn't as "solid" or something? I don't know I just know that it works when I can't just open the jar and is quieter (and safer) than banging the lid with a butter knife or the edge of a counter.

I would guess the display is done that way for 2 reasons: one being able to see the contents of the jars more clearly (like Virg said) and two to make it easier to open and sample the stuff inside.
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wheeitsme

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8636 on: October 22, 2013, 04:37:50 PM »
I went to the State Fair today with DD15.  My favorite part is the arts and crafts, and all the canned things. 

My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?

It's easier to open that way, because the vacuum is at the bottom (which is currently at the top), because all of the product has settled at the top (which is currently at the bottom.)

Do you have any evidence for that? From a general physics standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The entire contents of the jar, whether it's the food or the small amount of air, is going to be under the same (negative) pressure. Unless the contents of the jar are very, very thick, the air (not vacuum) will rise to the top when you turn it right side up to open. I'm certainly not going to try to open a jar of pickles or strawberry jam without turning it with the lid towards the top.

Sorry, but that sounds like a piece of folk-wisdom to me.

When I make jam, I turn the jar upside down when I seal it.  This helps achieve the vacuum seal on the canning jars.  If I want to make the seal stronger, I also give them a water bath.  The non-water bath works best with jams and jellies, because the contents are so hot.  Also, I boil the lids, so they are ready to seal.  As the jars, lids, and contents cool, a vacuum is created.  You can tell because when you use the current canning jar lids, they have a "dimple".  As the contents cool, a properly sealed lid will pop in once as the pressure inside the jar is reduced enough that atmospheric pressure pushes the lid inward.  An improperly sealed jar will allow the dimple to move up and down, sometimes making a popping noise.

My guess as to the display, is partially to add another layer of protection from an accidental vacuum break, show off the contents better, but also I'm guessing that the lids have the owner's information on them.

Virg

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8637 on: October 23, 2013, 11:10:45 AM »
My thought on the physics of turning a canning jar upside down work from the same principle that wine connoisseurs use.  Storing the jar inverted keeps the rubber seal moist (like storing wine cork down) so that it doesn't dry out and let the seal fail.  It won't make much difference in opening the jar, but it will preserve the seal longer, and since canning is done to allow for long term storage it would make sense.

Virg

Thipu1

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8638 on: October 23, 2013, 11:18:55 AM »
I always it was to make things easier for the judges and present a colorful display for visitors. 

Layla Miller

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8639 on: October 23, 2013, 12:08:19 PM »
Okay, this is making me nuts.  Awhile back DH and I saw an internet joke making fun of those inspirational "quotes about life"-type posters.  The only thing I can remember for certain was that it ended with "here's a picture of a tree" with a picture of a tree underneath.  DH loved it, and I'm hoping I can find it as an actual poster or print or something for him for Christmas.  But I can't remember the full quote, and that's hindering my search a great deal.  Does anyone else know the full quote?  I'm pretty sure it showed up on one of the Cheezburger sites, if that helps trigger any memories.
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