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### Author Topic: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread  (Read 2488649 times)

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#### Onyx_TKD

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9660 on: September 21, 2014, 03:37:10 PM »
Is there some kind of scientific writing and/or typesetting "rule" that equations always come at the end of a paragraph?

I am going over the proofs for an article I'm publishing in a scientific journal. Every time one of my sentences ends with an equation, the copyeditor has indented the next sentence as if it's a new paragraph, even though that is not the case in the original manuscript! This has happened with several previous papers as well. Strangely, they don't seem to have any problem with equations in the middle of a sentence--those sentences were left as I originally formatted them. Also, these added paragraph breaks are not highlighted in the proof like most of the copyeditor's changes. Minor changes like changing a hyphen to an en dash are highlighted for author approval, but changing the paragraph structure of the paper is not.

Each time, I have marked every new indent and requested that it be removed, since the sentence is a continuation of the previous paragraph. They've always fixed it for the final publication without complaint, but I'm baffled why they consistently add the new paragraph breaks in the first place. Any ideas?

#### Mel the Redcap

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9661 on: September 21, 2014, 06:39:57 PM »
Is there some kind of scientific writing and/or typesetting "rule" that equations always come at the end of a paragraph?

I am going over the proofs for an article I'm publishing in a scientific journal. Every time one of my sentences ends with an equation, the copyeditor has indented the next sentence as if it's a new paragraph, even though that is not the case in the original manuscript! This has happened with several previous papers as well. Strangely, they don't seem to have any problem with equations in the middle of a sentence--those sentences were left as I originally formatted them. Also, these added paragraph breaks are not highlighted in the proof like most of the copyeditor's changes. Minor changes like changing a hyphen to an en dash are highlighted for author approval, but changing the paragraph structure of the paper is not.

Each time, I have marked every new indent and requested that it be removed, since the sentence is a continuation of the previous paragraph. They've always fixed it for the final publication without complaint, but I'm baffled why they consistently add the new paragraph breaks in the first place. Any ideas?

That is odd! My first guess would be that they're autocorrecting or doing a 'replace all' on something to do with the equation at the end of the sentence - moving the full stop away from the numbers, maybe? - and accidentally including a paragraph break?
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#### guihong

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9662 on: September 22, 2014, 06:20:00 AM »
When you're on the interstate and see signs like "Podunk City 25 miles", from where are they measuring the 25 miles?  Suburbs and outerbelts are usually much further out (obviously).  Is there a designated spot for measuring distance?

#### Slartibartfast

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9663 on: September 22, 2014, 06:24:15 AM »
When you're on the interstate and see signs like "Podunk City 25 miles", from where are they measuring the 25 miles?  Suburbs and outerbelts are usually much further out (obviously).  Is there a designated spot for measuring distance?

There is - it usually corresponds to "downtown", but it's more or less the geographic city center at the time the measurements were first taken (which was probably decades ago).

#### Dazi

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9664 on: September 22, 2014, 06:25:29 AM »
When you're on the interstate and see signs like "Podunk City 25 miles", from where are they measuring the 25 miles?  Suburbs and outerbelts are usually much further out (obviously).  Is there a designated spot for measuring distance?

Usually, though not always, it is where the center of the city is or where the perceived center of activity is located (i.e. 1 Main Street/ the historic downtown area/ a sports arena).
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 06:32:57 AM by Dazi »
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#### Mel the Redcap

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9665 on: September 22, 2014, 06:28:31 AM »
When you're on the interstate and see signs like "Podunk City 25 miles", from where are they measuring the 25 miles?  Suburbs and outerbelts are usually much further out (obviously).  Is there a designated spot for measuring distance?

Here in Australia I think it's usually measured from the main post office?
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#### oz diva

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9666 on: September 22, 2014, 07:57:27 AM »
Yes that's right. We use the general post office in capital cities.

Victoria

#### Outdoor Girl

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9667 on: September 22, 2014, 09:47:28 AM »
I read somewhere that it is measured to city/town hall.
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#### lilfox

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9668 on: September 22, 2014, 02:54:27 PM »
When you're on the interstate and see signs like "Podunk City 25 miles", from where are they measuring the 25 miles?  Suburbs and outerbelts are usually much further out (obviously).  Is there a designated spot for measuring distance?

There is - it usually corresponds to "downtown", but it's more or less the geographic city center at the time the measurements were first taken (which was probably decades ago).

This is pretty helpful to know if you live in a metro area that posts current travel times to various suburbs along the highway.  It's also helpful, if depressing, when you see that it takes 25 minutes to get to Town A (that you are 10 miles from) and 56 minutes to get to Town B (15 miles) - at least you can figure out where traffic bogs down.

#### jpcher

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9669 on: September 22, 2014, 05:13:54 PM »
Is there some kind of scientific writing and/or typesetting "rule" that equations always come at the end of a paragraph?

I am going over the proofs for an article I'm publishing in a scientific journal. Every time one of my sentences ends with an equation, the copyeditor has indented the next sentence as if it's a new paragraph, even though that is not the case in the original manuscript! This has happened with several previous papers as well. Strangely, they don't seem to have any problem with equations in the middle of a sentence--those sentences were left as I originally formatted them. Also, these added paragraph breaks are not highlighted in the proof like most of the copyeditor's changes. Minor changes like changing a hyphen to an en dash are highlighted for author approval, but changing the paragraph structure of the paper is not.

Each time, I have marked every new indent and requested that it be removed, since the sentence is a continuation of the previous paragraph. They've always fixed it for the final publication without complaint, but I'm baffled why they consistently add the new paragraph breaks in the first place. Any ideas?

No rules that I'm aware of.

What program are they using to lay out your article? What program are you using for the original copy?

It could simply be a program type of misinterpretation due to copying from one program to the other.

It's been a very long time since I've had to typeset equations (thank diety!), but if I'm remembering correctly MS Word* has an "equation mode" (sort of a side program that makes writing equations much easier.) Word also has "styles" (forgive me if I'm talking down to you) which you can assign to certain things, like body text or headlines and equations, etc. for consistent formatting. The body text style would contain information for a certain amount of space above the paragraph and include the indent.

The equation mode style could possibly contain a certain amount of line space after the equation. So it is conceivable that a typesetter would see that there is no period after the equation in the middle of the sentence and manually fix the spacing. While, not checking the original (tsk! tsk!), they might see a period after the equation and assume that the automatic new paragraph is correct.

I don't believe that style changes are highlighted in the red-line mark-up.

*I don't use Word very often, I use InDesign (never used the equation mode here.) And I never use the track changes feature, but the above seems to be a logical explanation. Especially since this is a recurring situation, the exact same problem every time, it seems to be something automatic.

Next time you submit a paper for final typesetting I suggest that you make note to have them specifically check, against the original, for paragraph breaks after equations.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 05:35:10 PM by jpcher »

#### Dazi

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9670 on: September 22, 2014, 05:31:41 PM »
I wrote a check for services I received nearly two weeks ago. While balancing my account, I noticed it has not cleared my Bank yet. How long would you wait before questioning the business?
Meditate. Live purely. Quiet the mind. Do your work with mastery. Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine. ---Gautama Buddah

#### jpcher

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9671 on: September 22, 2014, 05:42:24 PM »
At least a month, until your next statement.

If they cashed the check even a few days before your last statement it might not have cleared before your statement was prepared.

#### Onyx_TKD

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9672 on: September 22, 2014, 05:53:25 PM »
Is there some kind of scientific writing and/or typesetting "rule" that equations always come at the end of a paragraph?

I am going over the proofs for an article I'm publishing in a scientific journal. Every time one of my sentences ends with an equation, the copyeditor has indented the next sentence as if it's a new paragraph, even though that is not the case in the original manuscript! This has happened with several previous papers as well. Strangely, they don't seem to have any problem with equations in the middle of a sentence--those sentences were left as I originally formatted them. Also, these added paragraph breaks are not highlighted in the proof like most of the copyeditor's changes. Minor changes like changing a hyphen to an en dash are highlighted for author approval, but changing the paragraph structure of the paper is not.

Each time, I have marked every new indent and requested that it be removed, since the sentence is a continuation of the previous paragraph. They've always fixed it for the final publication without complaint, but I'm baffled why they consistently add the new paragraph breaks in the first place. Any ideas?

No rules that I'm aware of.

What program are they using to lay out your article? What program are you using for the original copy?

It could simply be a program type of misinterpretation due to copying from one program to the other.

It's been a very long time since I've had to typeset equations (thank diety!), but if I'm remembering correctly MS Word* has an "equation mode" (sort of a side program that makes writing equations much easier.) Word also has "styles" (forgive me if I'm talking down to you) which you can assign to certain things, like body text or headlines, etc. for consistent formatting. The body text style would contain information for a certain amount of space above the paragraph and include the indent.

The equation mode style could possibly contain a certain amount of line space after the equation. So it is conceivable that a typesetter would see that there is no period after the equation in the middle of the sentence and manually fix the spacing. While, not checking the original (tsk! tsk!), they might see a period after the equation and assume that the automatic new paragraph is correct.

I don't believe that style changes are highlighted in the red-line mark-up.

*I don't use Word very often, I use InDesign (never used the equation mode here.) And I never use the track changes feature, but the above seems to be a logical explanation. Especially since this is a recurring situation, the exact same problem every time, it seems to be something automatic.

Next time you submit a paper for final typesetting I suggest that you make note to have them specifically check, against the original, for paragraph breaks after equations.

I submit my manuscript in LaTeX, using the publisher's own "class file." I don't know what programs they use to lay out the final article. They allow submissions in LaTeX or word processor formats. From my end, the process is:
1. I upload the source files for the paper, in my case a TEX file for the text and EPS files of the figures, using the journal's online submission website.
2. Type-setting magic happens, transforming the paper from the simple manuscript format I submitted to the publication format. In the process, those dang paragraph breaks appear. Changes by the copyeditor are supposed to be marked in the proof, but this only seems to apply to places where the copyeditor changed the actual text, e.g., replacing a hyphen, removing an extra space, changing the spelling of a word, etc.
3. We receive proofs of the paper in the publication format.
4. We approve or correct the proofs using their online system.

In LaTeX, a paragraph break is indicated by a blank line in the source file. Equations are set in an "equation environment," i.e., the file says "$$...$$" and this tells the typesetting program to format the stuff in the middle as a so-called "display equation." Assuming the copyeditor is also working in LaTeX, they would have to be adding an extra blank line after each sentence ending in an equation, which is absent in my original file. The pdf version of the manuscript marks paragraph breaks by indenting the first line of each paragraph rather than by a blank line.

Now that you mention it, I think the submission website has a spot to (optionally) enter comments to the editor. It specifically says not to enter the cover letter or replies to the reviewers in that box, and I've never really been sure what type of comments they expected. Maybe that would be the right place to ask them to check the paragraph breaks against the original manuscript? I've always assumed they meant comments for the Regional Editor who handles the approval/rejection of paper and the peer review process rather than the copyeditor who handled the final typesetting process.

#### Dazi

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9673 on: September 22, 2014, 05:56:10 PM »
At least a month, until your next statement.

If they cashed the check even a few days before your last statement it might not have cleared before your statement was prepared.

I checked online. My bank usually has it posted within 24 business hours. It might only show as pending, but it should be showing online if it was deposited by 6pm Friday.
Meditate. Live purely. Quiet the mind. Do your work with mastery. Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine. ---Gautama Buddah

#### kherbert05

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##### Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #9674 on: September 22, 2014, 06:01:52 PM »
When you're on the interstate and see signs like "Podunk City 25 miles", from where are they measuring the 25 miles?  Suburbs and outerbelts are usually much further out (obviously).  Is there a designated spot for measuring distance?

There is - it usually corresponds to "downtown", but it's more or less the geographic city center at the time the measurements were first taken (which was probably decades ago).

There are signs on I10 Katy inbound  go Entering Houston, Leaving Houston, Houston X miles, Entering Houston.  You leave Houston again when you pass through the Spring Branch and Memorial Villages, but they got rid of the Houston X mile signs during the last big expansion of that part of the highway.

According to my Dad, and Cousin (who is an engineer for company that builds highways) in Texas they usually measure from either the city hall or county court houses. Originally these would have been at the city square and center of town.
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