Author Topic: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread  (Read 1090245 times)

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Diane AKA Traska

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6450 on: January 02, 2013, 07:39:01 PM »
Our kids in Washington state can't get their license until they've taken and passed a DE course.  They aren't cheap, but neither is driving a car.  If you can't afford the class, how are you going to pay for a car, gas, and insurance?

I know where you're coming from, but I always find that logic quite odd to be honest.   

Money is a finite resource, so most people I know would be more likely to think  "If I do pay for the class, I won't have enough money for a car, gas and insurance, I'll save money by getting lessons from family".     Having money for 1 thing actually means less money for everything else.

I see it like this.  Cars and driving cost money, starting with Driver's Ed.  If you can't afford the required class, how are you going to pay for the rest of it?  It's like deciding you're going to buy a car, but skip the insurance.  I know some people DO that, but it's not smart.

I think that classes should be mandatory (but in school), but it's like this:  You have $X  Lessons cost $Y.  That leaves you with $(X-Y).  If car = $Z, and $Z<X, but $Z>(X-Y)...
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Iris

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6451 on: January 02, 2013, 11:36:54 PM »
perpetua wrote:

"That sounds like terrible instruction. In the event of a rear end collision all the force of the accident would be transferred up your leg into your hips and pelvis with your foot on the brake like that. Still, I guess they maybe weren't as aware of these things in the 70s."

I don't follow your logic here.  If you have your foot on your brake pedal and you're struck from behind, the car will tend to lurch forward, moving itself and the pedal away from you, not toward you.  More importantly, unless you're sitting such that you can lock your knee while pressing the pedal (and if you are, you're way too far from the pedals to drive safely), no impact of any kind will transfer up your leg to your hip because your knee will bend.

Virg

Virg, the car will go forward and so will you when you're struck from behind.  The seat is connected to the car and you're in the seat.  Your body is thus not independent from the car.  I don't know about the energy transfer up the leg because I think we're all imagining that part a little differently.

Your body is indeed independent from the car, otherwise we wouldn't need seatbelts, airbags etc to keep your body in position when the car suddenly moves in an unexpected direction. You WILL go forward when the car is struck from behind, but it will not be as a direct result of the impact - i.e. Car hits your car, causing your car to move forward. As an entirely separate event (from the point of view of physics) the back of your seat will hit YOU and propel you forward - and thanks to conservation of momentum there is no guarantee whatsoever that you will move forward at the same rate or for the same distance as the car.

I'm explaining it badly, but maths not physics is my area sorry. I once heard a physicist break down the number of actual impacts in a car crash (gross warning) ending with the impact of your brain on the inside of your skull. It was quite astounding and completely obvious once someone had told me about it :)
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kherbert05

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6452 on: January 03, 2013, 02:59:25 AM »

While I'm not a big fan of the parent driver education scheme in Texas. I have to say that Dad was able to do something my driver's ed teacher could not because of timing. I was terrified of driving on Houston Freeways. So first Dad took me out to the roads around our farm that were 55 mph, but little traffic. Once I got used to driving the speed limit, he would get up early on Sunday mornings and have me drive up and down I10 at the speed limit. Once I mastered that we would went on the exchanges from I10 to 610 to Gulf Freeway, to Southwest Freeway - again early on Sundays when there was little traffic. Then he got me used to traffic. I admit I still hate driving in Houston Traffic, but I can do it. Thing was Dad talked to the Driver's ed teacher about my fear of the freeways and how to best deal with it.
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RingTailedLemur

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6453 on: January 03, 2013, 04:15:54 AM »
Interesting.  In the UK, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways.  You have to pass your test first.

Mental Magpie

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6454 on: January 03, 2013, 06:53:00 AM »
Re: being independent from the car. I was using very general terms and wasn't clear. What I meant was that your body will eventually move from the crash. You won't just sit there while the car moves around you without ever moving you. For a split second while everything impacts everything else, sure, but in the end you'll move, too.
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KenveeB

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6455 on: January 03, 2013, 08:04:31 AM »
Interesting.  In the UK, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways.  You have to pass your test first.

In much of the US, it's a lot harder to get anywhere without being on a highway than it is in the UK. It would be very hard to get in enough driving practice if you weren't allowed on highways. :)

And honestly, highways are a lot easier in terms of sheer driving skills. Smaller roads with intersections and lights and traffic coming at you from everywhere are really a lot more challenging. Highways are just high speed.

RingTailedLemur

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6456 on: January 03, 2013, 09:47:07 AM »
Interesting.  In the UK, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways.  You have to pass your test first.

In much of the US, it's a lot harder to get anywhere without being on a highway than it is in the UK. It would be very hard to get in enough driving practice if you weren't allowed on highways. :)

And honestly, highways are a lot easier in terms of sheer driving skills. Smaller roads with intersections and lights and traffic coming at you from everywhere are really a lot more challenging. Highways are just high speed.

Yes, I found that to be the case when I started driving on motorways as a new driver.  I had been a bit nervous, but when I finally did it I realised it wasn't a big deal at all.

sunnygirl

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6457 on: January 03, 2013, 09:57:35 AM »
In the UK, you have to pass a written exam on driving and road rules before you're allowed to take the actual driving test - does this happen in the US too? Where do you go to take the test, the DMV, or in school during Drivers Ed class? What about people learning to drive who aren't taking Drivers Ed?

I was always fascinated hearing about Drivers Ed. In the UK we don't have anything like that in schools; people hire an instructor via an independent driving school and all the instruction is one-on-one in the car. People are expected to buy the Highway Code and learn the theory stuff in their own time. Do you have independent driving schools, where you can phone and an instructor brings a car to your house for a lesson, or is learning to drive mostly done via Drivers Ed and relatives? I think we should have Drivers Ed, it sounds like a much more sensible idea.

ladyknight1

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6458 on: January 03, 2013, 10:12:34 AM »
My son will be 15 in May and we are going to take him to get his learner's permit.

In his public high school, they sign up for a six week virtual driver's education class. Once they complete that, there is a manual they have to study and a written test to take before they can get their learner's permit. Once he has his permit, he will drive with adult supervision (must be over 21) until he is 16, when he can take the driving test and get his license. Florida calls it a graduated license. You go from a learner, to having a limited license (no driving from 11pm - 6 am without an adult over 21 in the car). The restrictions lessen until they are 18 and are unrestricted.

Snooks

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6459 on: January 03, 2013, 10:16:23 AM »
In the UK, you have to pass a written exam on driving and road rules before you're allowed to take the actual driving test - does this happen in the US too? Where do you go to take the test, the DMV, or in school during Drivers Ed class? What about people learning to drive who aren't taking Drivers Ed?

I was always fascinated hearing about Drivers Ed. In the UK we don't have anything like that in schools; people hire an instructor via an independent driving school and all the instruction is one-on-one in the car. People are expected to buy the Highway Code and learn the theory stuff in their own time. Do you have independent driving schools, where you can phone and an instructor brings a car to your house for a lesson, or is learning to drive mostly done via Drivers Ed and relatives? I think we should have Drivers Ed, it sounds like a much more sensible idea.

There's also the "Show Me Tell Me" part of the test now, which (as I understand it) involves things like "Show me how to check the oil", "Tell me how you would change the tyre".  That happens as part of the practical test.  That's come in at some point over the last ten years, I think I just missed out on having to do it.

If anyone is interested in the UK test, here's what happens during it.

RingTailedLemur

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6460 on: January 03, 2013, 10:17:43 AM »
My son will be 15 in May and we are going to take him to get his learner's permit.

In his public high school, they sign up for a six week virtual driver's education class. Once they complete that, there is a manual they have to study and a written test to take before they can get their learner's permit. Once he has his permit, he will drive with adult supervision (must be over 21) until he is 16, when he can take the driving test and get his license. Florida calls it a graduated license. You go from a learner, to having a limited license (no driving from 11pm - 6 am without an adult over 21 in the car). The restrictions lessen until they are 18 and are unrestricted.

Does it matter how long the adult has had a licence for?  I think it's 3 years here.

I like the idea of a graduated licence very much.

marcel

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6461 on: January 03, 2013, 10:31:45 AM »
Interesting.  In the UK, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways.  You have to pass your test first.

In much of the US, it's a lot harder to get anywhere without being on a highway than it is in the UK. It would be very hard to get in enough driving practice if you weren't allowed on highways. :)

And honestly, highways are a lot easier in terms of sheer driving skills. Smaller roads with intersections and lights and traffic coming at you from everywhere are really a lot more challenging. Highways are just high speed.
There is more to highways then just the high speed. allthough that does depend on where you live off course.

Over here we have (one of the) highest traffic densities in the world, and only profesionals are allowed to teach people to drive here. You take driving lessons, until you are ready to do the exam. If you pass you get your license and can drive independently, and if you fail you take more lessons again.

Personaly, I find the idea of non-pofesionals teaching driving ridiculous, and it is the reason why I will always be more suspect of other traffic in the US then I am over here, becaus i know that there is a good chance that the other driver did not receive good driving lessons.

My ex, a Washingtonian with a Washingtonian drivers license refuses to drive a car under any circumstances here, and she will only ever start doing it after she has received some Dutch driving lessons to help here dealing with the traffic intensity here.

About the UK. How are you going to learn driving on motorways if you are not allowed to drive on them?
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camlan

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6462 on: January 03, 2013, 10:33:17 AM »
In the UK, you have to pass a written exam on driving and road rules before you're allowed to take the actual driving test - does this happen in the US too? Where do you go to take the test, the DMV, or in school during Drivers Ed class? What about people learning to drive who aren't taking Drivers Ed?

I was always fascinated hearing about Drivers Ed. In the UK we don't have anything like that in schools; people hire an instructor via an independent driving school and all the instruction is one-on-one in the car. People are expected to buy the Highway Code and learn the theory stuff in their own time. Do you have independent driving schools, where you can phone and an instructor brings a car to your house for a lesson, or is learning to drive mostly done via Drivers Ed and relatives? I think we should have Drivers Ed, it sounds like a much more sensible idea.

There are a variety of ways to learn how to drive in the US.

Many high schools have driver's ed classes, where the theory and rules of the road are taught in a classroom setting, and driving practice is provided on the road, usually in a special car with dual controls.

There are separate, private driving schools that offer both classroom and on-the-road instruction.

You can also, if you want, take just the on-the-road instruction from a driving school, and learn the rules/read the manual on your own. The driving school with send a car and instructor to your house. The car will have dual controls. (This is an expensive option.) There are insurance discounts for teenagers to take a formal class, but for adults, those discounts usually don't exist, so they may opt for just the on-the-road instruction.

Your parents/other responsible adult can teach you how to drive. This involves getting your learner's permit. Once you have that, you can drive as long as there is a licensed driving sitting next to you (there may be other conditions that need to be met, but those are state-by-state). You then read the manual on your own.

The tests are usually given by the state Department/Registry of Motor Vehicles. There's a "written" test, which for me was 15 multiple choice questions on a touch screen computer. If you pass the written part of the test, you then get in your car with someone from the DMV, who tells you where to drive and what to do. My driving test was very simple. I drove around the neighborhood of the DMV office, stopped at a few stop signs, had to make a turn from a one lane street onto a two lane street, had to parallel park, had to back into a parking space. Never got on the highway or even into heavy traffic.
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Snooks

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6463 on: January 03, 2013, 10:36:05 AM »
About the UK. How are you going to learn driving on motorways if you are not allowed to drive on them?

You can take a course called Pass Plus which sometimes helps with insurance too.  It mainly covers motorway driving but it includes night driving and other advanced techniques too.  I honestly can't remember the first time I went on the motorway but I know it was before I did my Pass Plus.

guihong

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #6464 on: January 03, 2013, 10:37:43 AM »
In the UK, you have to pass a written exam on driving and road rules before you're allowed to take the actual driving test - does this happen in the US too? Where do you go to take the test, the DMV, or in school during Drivers Ed class? What about people learning to drive who aren't taking Drivers Ed?

I was always fascinated hearing about Drivers Ed. In the UK we don't have anything like that in schools; people hire an instructor via an independent driving school and all the instruction is one-on-one in the car. People are expected to buy the Highway Code and learn the theory stuff in their own time. Do you have independent driving schools, where you can phone and an instructor brings a car to your house for a lesson, or is learning to drive mostly done via Drivers Ed and relatives? I think we should have Drivers Ed, it sounds like a much more sensible idea.

I can't say for every state, though I am assuming it is similar.  In Arkansas, you have to take said test on the rules before you get a learner's permit.  DD14 has to go to the State Police office and pick up the rule book, but other states may do this at the DMV.  She studies this on her own, then she'll take the written test at the police.  Then she has to take lessons, and show proof of passing this at the police to take her driving test.

We do have independent driving schools (one is next door to the DMV  ::)), but to my knowledge you do the driving in your own car.  I've never known of an instructor who brought a car (presumably double-control, like an airplane), but it could happen. 

I took driver's ed in school, then private lessons, supplemented by my very nervous father  ;D