Author Topic: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread  (Read 843109 times)

3 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Carotte

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 920
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8610 on: October 18, 2013, 03:36:30 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/té".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Diane AKA Traska

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4412
  • Or you can just call me Diane. (NE USA EHellion)
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8611 on: October 18, 2013, 03:41:15 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

To quote comedian Brian Regan:

"It's I before E except after C, or when sounding like A as in neighbor and weigh, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and you'll never be right no matter what you say."

Or another funny (unattributed) quote:  How smart could Einstein really have been... he got the "I before E" rule wrong twice in his own name!
Location:
Philadelphia, PA

It's good to be Queen

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 817
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8612 on: October 18, 2013, 03:43:35 PM »
Quote
I'm this >< close to giving up on baking anything containing egg whites.  eHellions please help me, I'm obviously doing something stupid when it comes to dealing with them.

Recipe 1 - custard tart required me to fold beaten egg whites into egg yolk/sugar mix - served my family lumpy custard tart for Easter
Recipe 2 - lemon macaroons required me to fold flour and ground almonds into egg whites - baked myself some stick pancakes

When a recipe calls for me to fold something in, is there any reason that I can't use my electric whisk?

Electric whisk probably won't work, folding is an annoyingly slow task or you deflate the egg whites.  I use a spatula or large spoon and keep gently working them, large swipes from the bottom of the bowl, up the sides and down the middle until they are pretty well blended.  I try to avoid recipes that require folding if at all possible!


Mental Magpie

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4830
  • ...for the dark side looks back.
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8613 on: October 18, 2013, 03:44:16 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/té".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Boyfriend's 6 year old does that, but she's more sounding it out than anything.  "Kaa...kaaa....C! Ah...ah...A!  Te...te...T!"
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

lilfox

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1703
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8614 on: October 18, 2013, 04:12:17 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Which leads to my stupid, probably rhetorical question of why "learn to read" books that supposedly contain the simplest English words to learn invariably include words that violate general pronunciation rules.

I'm looking at you, counting books.  "One" and "Two"?  Yeah, try explaining why those sound the way they do while also teaching how to sound words out.

VorFemme

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12262
  • Strolls with scissors! Too tired to run today!
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8615 on: October 18, 2013, 04:16:27 PM »
Vocab/Language question:

A woman whose husband has died is a widow, and you can say "She was widowed last year".

A man whose wife has died is a widower. Is one capable of saying he was "widowered" or is that not a word?

Widowed is actually correct for both genders. :)
Ah. Thank you.  ;D Silly english language, always changing the darn rules.

I like to refer to a specific quote on occasions like this.

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. It beats them up in a dark alley and searches their pockets for loose grammar." ;D

I've been known to say that "English sleeps with their daughters and there are little bastard words running around."

I have read that France *hates* having words from other languages slip into use - so they have some kind of official group that looks at "new" things and comes up with a PROPER French term for it, if at all possible...there might be a couple of other languages that do the same, but little hybrid words keep popping up on the internet....
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

MrsJWine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8745
  • I have an excessive fondness for parentheses.
    • Wallydraigle
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8616 on: October 18, 2013, 05:02:44 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Which leads to my stupid, probably rhetorical question of why "learn to read" books that supposedly contain the simplest English words to learn invariably include words that violate general pronunciation rules.

I'm looking at you, counting books.  "One" and "Two"?  Yeah, try explaining why those sound the way they do while also teaching how to sound words out.

In a lot of (maybe all) languages, the most frequently-used words are often the most irregular. So learning words like "one" and "two" isn't particularly helpful if the focus is on sounding words out, but it is really useful for learning how to recognize the most common words. And it's probably best to start with those as early as possible so that they can be recognized immediately, without the child trying fruitlessly to sound them out.


I have a blog.  I hate that word.


Utah

Seraphia

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1715
  • Unabashed cat person
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8617 on: October 18, 2013, 05:05:20 PM »
Vocab/Language question:

A woman whose husband has died is a widow, and you can say "She was widowed last year".

A man whose wife has died is a widower. Is one capable of saying he was "widowered" or is that not a word?

Widowed is actually correct for both genders. :)
Ah. Thank you.  ;D Silly english language, always changing the darn rules.

I like to refer to a specific quote on occasions like this.

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. It beats them up in a dark alley and searches their pockets for loose grammar." ;D

I've been known to say that "English sleeps with their daughters and there are little bastard words running around."

I have read that France *hates* having words from other languages slip into use - so they have some kind of official group that looks at "new" things and comes up with a PROPER French term for it, if at all possible...there might be a couple of other languages that do the same, but little hybrid words keep popping up on the internet....

Truth! It's called the Academie Francaise.

If you're into podcasts at all, PRI does a good one called The World in Words, which has talked about the Academie Francaise several times. They also sometimes have a feature called 'Eating Sideways' about phrases that have no direct English equivalent, and it can be really interesting.
Ancora Imparo - I am still learning

RingTailedLemur

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2807
  • Rudeness is a small person's imitation of power.
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8618 on: October 18, 2013, 05:20:53 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/té".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

jpcher

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8475
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8619 on: October 18, 2013, 05:30:07 PM »
It is a wine and cheese board, and its nice aside from the name of the financial institution that gave it to DH as an industry party favor; hence me wanting to remove the plaque bit, which is not plasticized paper label but an engraved bit of aluminum stuck on.

If all else fails, say the wood gets scratched or you can't get the sticky stuff off, you can always get your own plaque bit engraved with your family name or favorite saying and place it over the icky parts.

Psychopoesie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 643
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8620 on: October 18, 2013, 07:00:38 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/té".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

It was also how I was taught how to read as a young child in Australia in the 70s. So it's not a newfangled technique. IME it works. My mum (now a retired teacher) speaks very highly of it as an approach.

I didn't realise how long phonics had been around - 19th century - till I checked out the Wikipedia entry after seeing this question. Looks like it's still considered an effective technique in schools here.

guihong

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6309
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8621 on: October 18, 2013, 08:02:18 PM »
I went to the State Fair today with DD15.  My favorite part is the arts and crafts, and all the canned things. 

My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?

SQ#2, of which I think I know the answer: My second favorite part of the fair are the animals.  Do the farmers bring their animals to the fair and essentially live there for the 10 days?  I say "I know the answer", as I spotted a lot of campers and RV's near the barns  ::).  Also, most are from pretty distant parts of the state, or from neighboring states.



Diane AKA Traska

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4412
  • Or you can just call me Diane. (NE USA EHellion)
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8622 on: October 18, 2013, 08:45:28 PM »
I went to the State Fair today with DD15.  My favorite part is the arts and crafts, and all the canned things. 

My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?

It's easier to open that way, because the vacuum is at the bottom (which is currently at the top), because all of the product has settled at the top (which is currently at the bottom.)
Location:
Philadelphia, PA

Elfmama

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5713
  • Is it Spring yet?
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8623 on: October 18, 2013, 09:05:39 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/té".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

It was also how I was taught how to read as a young child in Australia in the 70s. So it's not a newfangled technique. IME it works. My mum (now a retired teacher) speaks very highly of it as an approach.

I didn't realise how long phonics had been around - 19th century - till I checked out the Wikipedia entry after seeing this question. Looks like it's still considered an effective technique in schools here.
That's how I was taught to read also, by my mother.  My classmates were taught by the "look and say" method, where they were somehow supposed to recognize words by their shapes. ::) I was reading fluently in first grade, and went on to chapter books in second grade.  (Teacher read us a chapter of a book every day. I was too impatient waiting to find out how Ozma of Oz ended, so I checked it out of the library! :D )

I left that school in the middle of the 8th grade, and my classmates were STILL read. ing. one. syl. la. ble. word. at. a. time.  (Strike 'syllable' -- a long word like that the teacher had to prompt them on.) As a child I never could understand why they had so much trouble, when it was as easy as breathing.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 09:09:57 PM by Elfmama »
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I don't go crazy.  I AM crazy.  I sometimes go normal. 
Please make a note of this for future reference.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Iris

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3866
Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8624 on: October 18, 2013, 10:11:07 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/té".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

It was also how I was taught how to read as a young child in Australia in the 70s. So it's not a newfangled technique. IME it works. My mum (now a retired teacher) speaks very highly of it as an approach.

I didn't realise how long phonics had been around - 19th century - till I checked out the Wikipedia entry after seeing this question. Looks like it's still considered an effective technique in schools here.
That's how I was taught to read also, by my mother.  My classmates were taught by the "look and say" method, where they were somehow supposed to recognize words by their shapes. ::) I was reading fluently in first grade, and went on to chapter books in second grade.  (Teacher read us a chapter of a book every day. I was too impatient waiting to find out how Ozma of Oz ended, so I checked it out of the library! :D )

I left that school in the middle of the 8th grade, and my classmates were STILL read. ing. one. syl. la. ble. word. at. a. time.  (Strike 'syllable' -- a long word like that the teacher had to prompt them on.) As a child I never could understand why they had so much trouble, when it was as easy as breathing.

It's hard for primary school teachers because most research into the efficacy of teaching methods tends to be done on compliant children, because of course it is. However the overlap between 'compliant' and 'easy to teach' is quite high so people, with the best intentions in the world, come in with well researched NEW methods to teach kids to read which then just don't work in the average classroom. I learnt under the phonics system but I suspect the only way to STOP me learning to read would have been to lock all books away from me forever, and unfortunately kids like I was are overrepresented in research studies. Don't even get me started on the way they do this with teaching kids times tables. Seriously. Just don't.

Not saying research into new teaching methodologies should stop, not at all, we should always strive to do better. Just saying the methods of testing need to be a bit more 'real world' based.
"Can't do anything with children, can you?" the woman said.

Poirot thought you could, but forebore to say so.