Author Topic: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread  (Read 1037364 times)

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VorFemme

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8610 on: October 18, 2013, 04:16:27 PM »
Vocab/Language question:

A woman whose husband has died is a widow, and you can say "She was widowed last year".

A man whose wife has died is a widower. Is one capable of saying he was "widowered" or is that not a word?

Widowed is actually correct for both genders. :)
Ah. Thank you.  ;D Silly english language, always changing the darn rules.

I like to refer to a specific quote on occasions like this.

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. It beats them up in a dark alley and searches their pockets for loose grammar." ;D

I've been known to say that "English sleeps with their daughters and there are little bastard words running around."

I have read that France *hates* having words from other languages slip into use - so they have some kind of official group that looks at "new" things and comes up with a PROPER French term for it, if at all possible...there might be a couple of other languages that do the same, but little hybrid words keep popping up on the internet....
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MrsJWine

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8611 on: October 18, 2013, 05:02:44 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Which leads to my stupid, probably rhetorical question of why "learn to read" books that supposedly contain the simplest English words to learn invariably include words that violate general pronunciation rules.

I'm looking at you, counting books.  "One" and "Two"?  Yeah, try explaining why those sound the way they do while also teaching how to sound words out.

In a lot of (maybe all) languages, the most frequently-used words are often the most irregular. So learning words like "one" and "two" isn't particularly helpful if the focus is on sounding words out, but it is really useful for learning how to recognize the most common words. And it's probably best to start with those as early as possible so that they can be recognized immediately, without the child trying fruitlessly to sound them out.


I have a blog.  I hate that word.


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Seraphia

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8612 on: October 18, 2013, 05:05:20 PM »
Vocab/Language question:

A woman whose husband has died is a widow, and you can say "She was widowed last year".

A man whose wife has died is a widower. Is one capable of saying he was "widowered" or is that not a word?

Widowed is actually correct for both genders. :)
Ah. Thank you.  ;D Silly english language, always changing the darn rules.

I like to refer to a specific quote on occasions like this.

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. It beats them up in a dark alley and searches their pockets for loose grammar." ;D

I've been known to say that "English sleeps with their daughters and there are little bastard words running around."

I have read that France *hates* having words from other languages slip into use - so they have some kind of official group that looks at "new" things and comes up with a PROPER French term for it, if at all possible...there might be a couple of other languages that do the same, but little hybrid words keep popping up on the internet....

Truth! It's called the Academie Francaise.

If you're into podcasts at all, PRI does a good one called The World in Words, which has talked about the Academie Francaise several times. They also sometimes have a feature called 'Eating Sideways' about phrases that have no direct English equivalent, and it can be really interesting.
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RingTailedLemur

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8613 on: October 18, 2013, 05:20:53 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/t".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

jpcher

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8614 on: October 18, 2013, 05:30:07 PM »
It is a wine and cheese board, and its nice aside from the name of the financial institution that gave it to DH as an industry party favor; hence me wanting to remove the plaque bit, which is not plasticized paper label but an engraved bit of aluminum stuck on.

If all else fails, say the wood gets scratched or you can't get the sticky stuff off, you can always get your own plaque bit engraved with your family name or favorite saying and place it over the icky parts.

Psychopoesie

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8615 on: October 18, 2013, 07:00:38 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/t".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

It was also how I was taught how to read as a young child in Australia in the 70s. So it's not a newfangled technique. IME it works. My mum (now a retired teacher) speaks very highly of it as an approach.

I didn't realise how long phonics had been around - 19th century - till I checked out the Wikipedia entry after seeing this question. Looks like it's still considered an effective technique in schools here.

guihong

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8616 on: October 18, 2013, 08:02:18 PM »
I went to the State Fair today with DD15.  My favorite part is the arts and crafts, and all the canned things. 

My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?

SQ#2, of which I think I know the answer: My second favorite part of the fair are the animals.  Do the farmers bring their animals to the fair and essentially live there for the 10 days?  I say "I know the answer", as I spotted a lot of campers and RV's near the barns  ::).  Also, most are from pretty distant parts of the state, or from neighboring states.



Diane AKA Traska

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8617 on: October 18, 2013, 08:45:28 PM »
I went to the State Fair today with DD15.  My favorite part is the arts and crafts, and all the canned things. 

My stupid question is, Why are all the cans displayed lid down?

It's easier to open that way, because the vacuum is at the bottom (which is currently at the top), because all of the product has settled at the top (which is currently at the bottom.)
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Elfmama

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8618 on: October 18, 2013, 09:05:39 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/t".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

It was also how I was taught how to read as a young child in Australia in the 70s. So it's not a newfangled technique. IME it works. My mum (now a retired teacher) speaks very highly of it as an approach.

I didn't realise how long phonics had been around - 19th century - till I checked out the Wikipedia entry after seeing this question. Looks like it's still considered an effective technique in schools here.
That's how I was taught to read also, by my mother.  My classmates were taught by the "look and say" method, where they were somehow supposed to recognize words by their shapes. ::) I was reading fluently in first grade, and went on to chapter books in second grade.  (Teacher read us a chapter of a book every day. I was too impatient waiting to find out how Ozma of Oz ended, so I checked it out of the library! :D )

I left that school in the middle of the 8th grade, and my classmates were STILL read. ing. one. syl. la. ble. word. at. a. time.  (Strike 'syllable' -- a long word like that the teacher had to prompt them on.) As a child I never could understand why they had so much trouble, when it was as easy as breathing.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 09:09:57 PM by Elfmama »
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Iris

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8619 on: October 18, 2013, 10:11:07 PM »
I never realized how utterly exasperating the English language was until I started teaching my kid to read.

Holy mackerel.  I kept thinking I found a 'rule' to help her with phonics and then a word would come along and prove me wrong.  I got especially excited when I discovered it seemed single syllable words that ended in "e" had a long vowel sound (bake, cake, kite, cute, cone, etc.)

And then we got to love.  And give.  And a few others that made me just start saying "MOST of the time..."

Speaking about learning to read, this summer I talked with an 8 y/old girl who lives in the UK, and for a reason that I cannot fathom and who will, I'm pretty sure, backfire, they where taught to spell words, not using the 'letter' but the sound of the letter in the word.
For example, cat, you should spell it " c/a/t : see/ah/tee" but they had to spell it "kaa/ah/t".
It was weird, is that something that is widely done?
I'm pretty sure kids can learn that cat and ceiling starts with the same letter but that it can sound different ways without that.

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

It was also how I was taught how to read as a young child in Australia in the 70s. So it's not a newfangled technique. IME it works. My mum (now a retired teacher) speaks very highly of it as an approach.

I didn't realise how long phonics had been around - 19th century - till I checked out the Wikipedia entry after seeing this question. Looks like it's still considered an effective technique in schools here.
That's how I was taught to read also, by my mother.  My classmates were taught by the "look and say" method, where they were somehow supposed to recognize words by their shapes. ::) I was reading fluently in first grade, and went on to chapter books in second grade.  (Teacher read us a chapter of a book every day. I was too impatient waiting to find out how Ozma of Oz ended, so I checked it out of the library! :D )

I left that school in the middle of the 8th grade, and my classmates were STILL read. ing. one. syl. la. ble. word. at. a. time.  (Strike 'syllable' -- a long word like that the teacher had to prompt them on.) As a child I never could understand why they had so much trouble, when it was as easy as breathing.

It's hard for primary school teachers because most research into the efficacy of teaching methods tends to be done on compliant children, because of course it is. However the overlap between 'compliant' and 'easy to teach' is quite high so people, with the best intentions in the world, come in with well researched NEW methods to teach kids to read which then just don't work in the average classroom. I learnt under the phonics system but I suspect the only way to STOP me learning to read would have been to lock all books away from me forever, and unfortunately kids like I was are overrepresented in research studies. Don't even get me started on the way they do this with teaching kids times tables. Seriously. Just don't.

Not saying research into new teaching methodologies should stop, not at all, we should always strive to do better. Just saying the methods of testing need to be a bit more 'real world' based.
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Elfmama

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8620 on: October 18, 2013, 10:19:18 PM »
Regarding the oddities of English spelling vs. pronunciation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g10jFL423ho starting at about 2:55.
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Ereine

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8621 on: October 18, 2013, 10:38:00 PM »
I have read that France *hates* having words from other languages slip into use - so they have some kind of official group that looks at "new" things and comes up with a PROPER French term for it, if at all possible...there might be a couple of other languages that do the same, but little hybrid words keep popping up on the internet....

Finland has a such group, Kielitoimisto, the language office that gives suggestions on language use and new words. Sometimes they stick (unlike most of our neighbours we don't used a word derived from telephone for example) but we do have loan words, like radio, televisio and internet. I think that it often depends on how easily the word fits Finnish and the strange things we have to do to words.

Carotte

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8622 on: October 19, 2013, 08:02:44 AM »

Yes.  "Phonics" is the way children learn to read (and are nationally assessed) here.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/phonics

It was also how I was taught how to read as a young child in Australia in the 70s. So it's not a newfangled technique. IME it works. My mum (now a retired teacher) speaks very highly of it as an approach.

I didn't realise how long phonics had been around - 19th century - till I checked out the Wikipedia entry after seeing this question. Looks like it's still considered an effective technique in schools here.
That's how I was taught to read also, by my mother.  My classmates were taught by the "look and say" method, where they were somehow supposed to recognize words by their shapes. ::) I was reading fluently in first grade, and went on to chapter books in second grade.  (Teacher read us a chapter of a book every day. I was too impatient waiting to find out how Ozma of Oz ended, so I checked it out of the library! :D )

I left that school in the middle of the 8th grade, and my classmates were STILL read. ing. one. syl. la. ble. word. at. a. time.  (Strike 'syllable' -- a long word like that the teacher had to prompt them on.) As a child I never could understand why they had so much trouble, when it was as easy as breathing.

The thing is, she already knew how to read, it wasn't about sounding out words by the syllable, but about spelling them.
It would make sense to use the same technique for kids learning to read, but for kids already reading, it seems counterproductive to keep them saying "kaa" and not "see" for the letter C. I would have been utterly lost if she had spelled say her street name this way.
Maybe her classmates aren't there yet, I don't know much about 8/9 years old...

I forgot which technique was used to teach me to read, I just know it must have been the shaping stone for my learning disability, in a weird way, I learned to read without a problem, coupled with understanding what I read above grade level, but in a dyslexic kind of way, I don't care how it's written so I don't 'care' how I write it (double letters even when they don't make the same sound, ending words the way (plural/conjugated) they are meant to, accents like and that I don't 'hear'...).
Grammar and stuff like that doesn't stick, the errors I make in English or Portuguese are the same (double letters) and even tho I have a pretty good (not perfect) grasp of the language I also know and 'use' about zero grammar rule.
So yeah, English is still easier than French in that aspect :)

kherbert05

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8623 on: October 19, 2013, 08:34:04 AM »
Teaching reading - you have to teach it all phonics, sight words, guided reading. No one method is going to work with all kids. But you get administrators that get wedded to a particular method or state legislatures that are required to send billions out of the country to the be all end all company (Pearson) and the kids and teachers are the victims.


My Mom used to tell a story about how Sis got to JH and the teachers asked "What happened the kids can spell" - Mom's reply they stopped teaching only phonics. Drove my Mom crazy I would spell words completely phonetically. Words that I could read fine, I would spell wrong.


Our administrators fell in love with a particular lock step math program. We had a lesson a day that we had to teach. If administration came in 15 minutes into your lesson you had better be at Point X in the script. There is an intro video that was a bad film strip converted into flash. It gave us 1 day to teach adding 2 digit numbers to 1 digit numbers with regrouping (carrying) for example. A couple of years into that program and the secondary math teachers were tearing their hair out. They were getting kids with no number sense, no problem solving, and pretty much no math skills. Now we are back to concrete, pictorial, abstract. We are going to spend all of next week on adding 2 digit by 1 digit with regrouping. We will use unifix cubes, and pictures along with the algorithm.
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Krism

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Re: The "This Might Be A Stupid Question, But...." Thread
« Reply #8624 on: October 19, 2013, 07:20:44 PM »


SQ#2, of which I think I know the answer: My second favorite part of the fair are the animals.  Do the farmers bring their animals to the fair and essentially live there for the 10 days?  I say "I know the answer", as I spotted a lot of campers and RV's near the barns  ::).  Also, most are from pretty distant parts of the state, or from neighboring states.

When I was a kid in high school that's what we did, there was a large section of the fairgrounds set aside for us to put campers, no tents though, unfortunately.  You have to pretty much be there all day, feed them in the morning and at night, keep their bedding clean - it just makes sense to stay there. Also part of the 4-H experience was to talk to the people who walked through the barns, a lot of them "city folk" about the animals and farm life.