Author Topic: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In  (Read 14188 times)

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Wonderflonium

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2011, 04:20:24 PM »
The thing is, I wouldn't have enjoyed the movie any less had I walked into it knowing that the difficult dance steps were performed by a double. I wouldn't have blinked. I still would have wanted Natalie to win for her acting, and I would have been extremely impressed by how seamlessly they did their 'movie magic' to make all her dancing look real.

I guess I just don't see why the issue of Ms. Lane being a dance double was ever taboo. Seems like some silly Hollywood producer nonsense to me.

I agree a bajillion percent. I saw the movie because it looked interesting and I wanted to see dancing. I personally didn't care who was dancing; I just love ballet and thought it would put an interesting twist on a psychological thriller.

I think some of the push to ignore the double was an attempt to get Portman the Oscar, but honestly, even if she'd only done 5% of the dancing, she still would have won (in my opinion). It just all got out of hand.
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KimberlyRose

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2011, 09:52:39 PM »
At first it sounds gracious and 'above the fray', until you realise she's pretty much called her double 'nasty' and a 'gossip'. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong, and she's not actually directing that at Lane. Maybe it's directed at gossip rags, like, oh, say E-online to whom she keeps giving interviews ::)

I think you're right that she's not talking about Lane.  There are plenty of people attacking her, and I assume that's who she's talking about.  I can't say I think Lane's handling things well, but I do think she's going to come out of this looking worse than she might, because people are still going to associate her with the negativity coming from other people on her behalf.

jimithing

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #77 on: April 10, 2011, 03:02:18 AM »
I watched the movie again tonight, and was watching with a more critical eye. It seemed to me that the majority of the shots were actually upper body shots, which where clearly Portman. My estimate was that 80% of the dancing shots were of her upper body, with 20% being full body or lower body.

So, even if Lane did dance 85% or whatever number she said of those scenes, it still wasn't the majority of the movie. There was a good deal of the movie that didn't feature any dancing.

And Portman's facial expression and emotions were amazing. I can see why she won for Best Actress.

Ms_Shell

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #78 on: April 10, 2011, 10:13:24 AM »
The thing is, I wouldn't have enjoyed the movie any less had I walked into it knowing that the difficult dance steps were performed by a double. I wouldn't have blinked. I still would have wanted Natalie to win for her acting, and I would have been extremely impressed by how seamlessly they did their 'movie magic' to make all her dancing look real.

I guess I just don't see why the issue of Ms. Lane being a dance double was ever taboo. Seems like some silly Hollywood producer nonsense to me.

I agree a bajillion percent. I saw the movie because it looked interesting and I wanted to see dancing. I personally didn't care who was dancing; I just love ballet and thought it would put an interesting twist on a psychological thriller.

POD.  I was so excited to see this movie when it came out - Darren Aronofsky is one of my favorite directors and I'm addicted to dance movies.  As far as I'm concerned, Nina Sayers the character did 100% of her own dancing and did it well.

Plus now I really want to see Swan Lake on the stage sometime.   
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Queen of Clubs

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #79 on: April 11, 2011, 02:13:43 PM »
i do have one question, and it goes to the bolded.  she was always to be Natalie's stunt/dance double.  that was her understanding, correct?  if that was always the agreement, why is she disappointed?  if it is that Portman's face was projected onto her body, i think it's a bit unrealistic for her to be disappointed, as she was doubling for the star of the movie, she was not the star. 

i'm sorry she's disappointed.  this situation does seem to point out that one must always be sure to of all of the particulars before one signs a contract. 

Maybe she's disappointed because she didn't realise how much of her contribution would be downplayed?  She 'just' did the footwork (or the majority of the footwork)?  There's nothing 'just' about that.  NP said in an interview with EW:

Quote
''I do have a double for the complicated turning stuff."
Interview here: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20441365,00.html

That makes it sound like she did the majority of the dancing, and that's in doubt.  I do not doubt that NP worked incredibly hard - she had to have - but I think it's a bit disingenuous of anyone involved in the film to act like NP did most of the dancing.  Where's the shame in admitting that NP isn't a ballerina?  She's an actress!  She should get more credit for being able to act like a ballerina, to be so convincing in the role, rather than claim she did most of the dancing.

But in the past, people didn't actively deny the stunt doubles. They may not have been mentioned, but there was no pretending they didn't exist. That's my problem; they denied the work Lane did to help Portman in her Oscar run. Given that, I think the gracious thing to do would have been to thank Lane. (Truly the best thing would have been for Arronofsky and Millepied to have kept their mouths shut when people started writing about Lane's work instead of trying to downplay it. Lane only spoke out AFTER that.)

I agree.  I don't blame Sarah Lane for speaking up, especially if people were speaking for her and making her sound bad.  I actually think it's pretty rude for anyone to say she should just shut up.  Since when is it wrong to defend yourself?

I also think it's incredibly shady that a video came out showing the digital replacement (NP's face on SL's body), then it was suppressed.  It makes it look like they've got something to hide.

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2011, 02:30:50 PM »
But in the past, people didn't actively deny the stunt doubles. They may not have been mentioned, but there was no pretending they didn't exist.

Other than, you mean, not giving them credits to the movie itself?

The only reason people "actively deny" stunt doubles today is that they're known and discussed (that is, not hidden).
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Wonderflonium

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2011, 02:48:08 PM »
But in the past, people didn't actively deny the stunt doubles. They may not have been mentioned, but there was no pretending they didn't exist.

Other than, you mean, not giving them credits to the movie itself?

The only reason people "actively deny" stunt doubles today is that they're known and discussed (that is, not hidden).

That was unnecessary. I know that stunt doubles weren't always credited but they have been for quite some time now, and that is to what I was referring. No need to get snarky.
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Aeris

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #82 on: April 11, 2011, 02:58:47 PM »
I think one reason why people on this thread are disagreeing, and perhaps outside of this thread as well, is that people are defining 'most of the dancing' in different ways.

To some people, NP did 'most of the dancing' as when you look at the dancing shots in the movie, the vast majority are of her (either waist up shots, full body on the not insanely hard stuff, or full body with modified steps), and only a minority are Lane (feet only, full body with NP's face superimposed).

Other people are looking at the dancing that must be done throughout this filming, without relation to the shot lengths/types themselves, and noting that Lane *must* have done a significant amount of the dancing in order to actually *get* all the shots.

Further exacerbating that problem might be which shots people consider part of the 'dancing'. If one is, for instance, including absolutely everything that could possibly be remotely characterized as dancing (where other people might say, that's just a shot of her holding her arms in position), the balance tips in NP's favor. If you go the other extreme and only characterize as 'dancing' the actual full on dance sequence shots, the balance may well tip more toward Lane.

I honestly think some semantic differences are underpinning a significant amount of this controversy.

jimithing

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2011, 03:10:51 PM »
I think one reason why people on this thread are disagreeing, and perhaps outside of this thread as well, is that people are defining 'most of the dancing' in different ways.

To some people, NP did 'most of the dancing' as when you look at the dancing shots in the movie, the vast majority are of her (either waist up shots, full body on the not insanely hard stuff, or full body with modified steps), and only a minority are Lane (feet only, full body with NP's face superimposed).

Other people are looking at the dancing that must be done throughout this filming, without relation to the shot lengths/types themselves, and noting that Lane *must* have done a significant amount of the dancing in order to actually *get* all the shots.

Further exacerbating that problem might be which shots people consider part of the 'dancing'. If one is, for instance, including absolutely everything that could possibly be remotely characterized as dancing (where other people might say, that's just a shot of her holding her arms in position), the balance tips in NP's favor. If you go the other extreme and only characterize as 'dancing' the actual full on dance sequence shots, the balance may well tip more toward Lane.

I honestly think some semantic differences are underpinning a significant amount of this controversy.

I think this is an excellent point.

Like I said, in the actual movie, I would say that the majority of the dancing shots are of Portman, because most of them are upper body shots. And it's that cut that the Academy would base their nomination on, as well as the actual Oscar. So I would say that because of that Portman deserves every ounce of praise she has been given.

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #84 on: April 11, 2011, 06:13:32 PM »
I wonder how much of this is based on perception. If Portman and Lane didn't actually work together I could see something like this happening:

-Portman being filmed dancing the routines
-Lane being filmed dancing the routines
-editors splicing and picking between the two. Maybe Portman did better than they expected, so they can use more of her footage

Time goes by, the film is released and Portman wins an oscar.

-Both Portman and Lane remember filming the scenes (independently of each other), and so Lane thinks that because they filmed her so much she must be the one in the shots, and vice versa with Portman.

I just wonder if Lane said she did all the dancing because she was filmed doing all the dancing, and didn't realize that it doesn't necessarily mean they used all the footage of her.

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2011, 11:09:22 AM »
I wonder how much of this is based on perception. If Portman and Lane didn't actually work together I could see something like this happening:

-Portman being filmed dancing the routines
-Lane being filmed dancing the routines
-editors splicing and picking between the two. Maybe Portman did better than they expected, so they can use more of her footage

Time goes by, the film is released and Portman wins an oscar.

-Both Portman and Lane remember filming the scenes (independently of each other), and so Lane thinks that because they filmed her so much she must be the one in the shots, and vice versa with Portman.

I just wonder if Lane said she did all the dancing because she was filmed doing all the dancing, and didn't realize that it doesn't necessarily mean they used all the footage of her.

This is a very good point.

Ceiling Fan

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #86 on: April 13, 2011, 12:59:33 PM »
I wonder how much of this is based on perception. If Portman and Lane didn't actually work together I could see something like this happening:

-Portman being filmed dancing the routines
-Lane being filmed dancing the routines
-editors splicing and picking between the two. Maybe Portman did better than they expected, so they can use more of her footage

Time goes by, the film is released and Portman wins an oscar.

-Both Portman and Lane remember filming the scenes (independently of each other), and so Lane thinks that because they filmed her so much she must be the one in the shots, and vice versa with Portman.

I just wonder if Lane said she did all the dancing because she was filmed doing all the dancing, and didn't realize that it doesn't necessarily mean they used all the footage of her.

This is a very good point.

Hmm, I wonder if each can actually recognize their own body parts? I assume Lane was chosen as the dance double because she does have the same body type (measurements, etc) as NP, so could they really tell? It's pretty obvious if NP never was en pointe whose legwork it was, but the rest?

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2011, 05:45:52 PM »
For those who are interested, Sarah Lane is going to be on 20/20 tonight.

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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2011, 06:22:32 PM »
So apparently rumor has it that Ms Lane and NP's fiance's ex-gf are close. People are insinuating that this is partly the reason why she is kicking up such a fuss. I think that's a little unfair, especially since the only evidence is that they apparently danced together in the ABT, and are both pictured in a group photo.

Honestly, I think the media is the one that is mostly to blame here. Taking things out of context from both camps will result in hurt feelings and the like.

I feel, however, that even if Black Swan had not been about dancing - say it was about debating or chess - NP would still have won an Oscar for her portrayal of a girl going over the edge of madness.
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Re: Natalie Portman and her Stand-In
« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2011, 03:21:37 PM »
The irony here is that both women are artists who answer to a powerful movie studio. One woman commands millions for her performances and is honored on national TV. The other will work for peanuts and retire at a young age, possibly with injuries, to promote an art that is constantly teetering on the brink of extinction. Many ballet companies can't even afford the lush, live music that Tchaikovsky scored in order to make Black Swan possible. If anything, Portman may have missed an opportunity to give a shout-out to the performing arts in general, as a fellow artist herself.