Grandma gave grandson his first haircut wo asking - updates 102 120 131 214

[Iris]

Let me give you an example of how a normally dysfunctional (if you kwim) family behaves;

My DB and SIL were very opposed to their children having lollies. My mum used to babysit them once a week and would sneak them the odd lolly, in the way that grandparents do. While I agreed with her that the odd lolly probably wasn't the end of the world, I explained that it wasn't our choice to make and she really should stop. The next time I spoke to her she'd done it again but my DN had said to her "We won't tell daddy about this will we? It's a secret." Mum felt SO BAD. She immediately explained that it wasn't right to keep secrets from daddy and never gave them lollies without permission again. Also DB and SIL lightened up about it a lot more once they knew they could trust her.

That's a few LOLLIES. Your mother has taken that and multiplied it by about a million. It's great that you've taken the first steps, but I would start considering other baby sitting options if I were you. Unless something drastic changes I would really, really not leave them with her for several days.

[helixa]

In your case - I agree that maybe Grandma had been accustomed to cutting her own kids' hair and didn't see that it was a big deal.  I'm not saying that it was okay of course.  But if it had been me, I don't think I would have made a deal-breaker speech.

Except the idea of how special this first cut was was underlined because the OP's Mother did this with her and kept a lock of the hair in a book.

OP's mother had her chance at being a mom - she shouldn't be trying to steal a second time round from her daughter.

[Nora]

The email sounds good. I hope she "gets" it.

[theresa]

Obviously - re the OP - there are major boundary issues anyway so of course it's understandable that the parents could be upset about the haircut.

However - not all parents feel that this is an important milestone.  DS #1 had a lot of hair at birth - a few months later he had enough that it was in his eyes, and we just took some scissors to it.  His younger brother didn't have any appreciable hair till a lot later - but the same, we just trimmed it ourselves.  It simply wasn't an important date to us and we didn't record it anywhere.  We didn't think that "first haircut" was a big deal.  That's us.  For some people, it's indeed an event.

In your case - I agree that maybe Grandma had been accustomed to cutting her own kids' hair and didn't see that it was a big deal.  I'm not saying that it was okay of course.  But if it had been me, I don't think I would have made a deal-breaker speech.

te]

POD to this.  My family has more of a "we're all in it together" style, as opposed to everyone having boundries about things, so it's sort of hard for me to understand getting that  upset over something like this.  Aside from abusing of the kids, which would never happen, I can't imagine any circumstance in which anyone in my family woul dbe "denied access" to my child.  Shouldn't this be the absolute very last resort?

I would let the child see the grandma with ME there. THe grandma does need to be left alone with the child (for reasons explained in this thread).
My MIL used to watch my kids but she crossed the line, from that point on (6 years have past) she can see my kids anytime but I wont be leaving them alone with her.

[Piratelvr1121]

I sympathize on not getting much time alone with your husband if you have no family to watch them.  Dh and I are kinda in the same boat in that respect, as we live an hour away from his parents and don't speak to mine.  

Maybe people in this position need to try to cultivate more friendships with other parents, and other kids. So that there *is* someone you could tap for babysitting for a weekend.

Well I have worked out something with a neighbor who has kids.  She agreed to watch the boys one night so DH and I could go out and see the last Harry Potter movie on a date and I told her that if she ever wants to have a Date Night, let us know and we'll watch her younger one (older one visits his dad on weekends.)

[JoyinVirginia]

I would look for a babysitter you trust right now. Because you cannot trust your mother.

[MeowMixer]

I'm not a mum, but that made my tummy lurch. This would be sticking post here and no more unsupervised visits.

Was it on this forum? I don't remember if it was here or a dear abby/annie/insert advice columnist name but wasn't there a thread about a grandmother who got her infant granddaughter's ears pierced without the parental unit consent?

Look, either way, she has proven herself extremely untrustworthy, I wouldn't let her babysit anymore.

[aventurine]

It was always a given that my MiL would behave this way.  She's an absolute monster of selfishness with no sense of decorum or respect for boundaries. 

When Lapis and I decided not to have kids, he had already cut her out of his life.  He still spoke to his father, though, and Dad reported that when she learned there would be no grandkids, she took to her bed for 2 days, saying her "life was ruined."     I can only imagine what plots and schemes that decision spoiled for her. 

Danika, the only thing I would changed in your email was to say, "I am upset" (about the haircut) rather than "I was upset," but it's a small thing.  It sounded good.  I hope you have no drama out of her, but I don't expect that, so please update.   

[Lynn2000]

Obviously - re the OP - there are major boundary issues anyway so of course it's understandable that the parents could be upset about the haircut.

However - not all parents feel that this is an important milestone.  DS #1 had a lot of hair at birth - a few months later he had enough that it was in his eyes, and we just took some scissors to it.  His younger brother didn't have any appreciable hair till a lot later - but the same, we just trimmed it ourselves.  It simply wasn't an important date to us and we didn't record it anywhere.  We didn't think that "first haircut" was a big deal.  That's us.  For some people, it's indeed an event.

In your case - I agree that maybe Grandma had been accustomed to cutting her own kids' hair and didn't see that it was a big deal.  I'm not saying that it was okay of course.  But if it had been me, I don't think I would have made a deal-breaker speech.

te]

POD to this.  My family has more of a "we're all in it together" style, as opposed to everyone having boundries about things, so it's sort of hard for me to understand getting that  upset over something like this.  Aside from abusing of the kids, which would never happen, I can't imagine any circumstance in which anyone in my family woul dbe "denied access" to my child.  Shouldn't this be the absolute very last resort?

For me personally, the haircut itself would not be a big deal. The OP mentioned previously that her mom had her child baptized without the OP's permission, and the OP said she didn't really care about that so much; for me, that would be a HUGE deal which would have meant a lot of work from my mom if she ever wanted to have a rel@tionship with me or her grandchild again. I think the point is not the haircut or the baptism, though; it's that Grandma is deliberately doing things to/with the grandchildren that she knows--that any reasonable person would know--her daughter doesn't want done. There is a pattern of defiance and undermining in her behavior; and when confronted, she gets defensive instead of apologizing, and the next time the opportunity arises, she does what she wants again instead of stopping to think about her daughter's wishes. I think you can pick whatever special event, experience, treat, etc. is important to you and insert it into the story; that's really just a detail. IMO, of course.

I think in certain family types, boundaries are adhered to so naturally that people don't even really think about them, you know? But just because someone has never had a talk with family members about boundaries, it doesn't mean there aren't any. It just means they've never been a problem. Again, IMO.

[auntmeegs]

Obviously - re the OP - there are major boundary issues anyway so of course it's understandable that the parents could be upset about the haircut.

However - not all parents feel that this is an important milestone.  DS #1 had a lot of hair at birth - a few months later he had enough that it was in his eyes, and we just took some scissors to it.  His younger brother didn't have any appreciable hair till a lot later - but the same, we just trimmed it ourselves.  It simply wasn't an important date to us and we didn't record it anywhere.  We didn't think that "first haircut" was a big deal.  That's us.  For some people, it's indeed an event.

In your case - I agree that maybe Grandma had been accustomed to cutting her own kids' hair and didn't see that it was a big deal.  I'm not saying that it was okay of course.  But if it had been me, I don't think I would have made a deal-breaker speech.

te]

POD to this.  My family has more of a "we're all in it together" style, as opposed to everyone having boundries about things, so it's sort of hard for me to understand getting that  upset over something like this.  Aside from abusing of the kids, which would never happen, I can't imagine any circumstance in which anyone in my family woul dbe "denied access" to my child.  Shouldn't this be the absolute very last resort?

For me personally, the haircut itself would not be a big deal. The OP mentioned previously that her mom had her child baptized without the OP's permission, and the OP said she didn't really care about that so much; for me, that would be a HUGE deal which would have meant a lot of work from my mom if she ever wanted to have a rel@tionship with me or her grandchild again. I think the point is not the haircut or the baptism, though; it's that Grandma is deliberately doing things to/with the grandchildren that she knows--that any reasonable person would know--her daughter doesn't want done. There is a pattern of defiance and undermining in her behavior; and when confronted, she gets defensive instead of apologizing, and the next time the opportunity arises, she does what she wants again instead of stopping to think about her daughter's wishes. I think you can pick whatever special event, experience, treat, etc. is important to you and insert it into the story; that's really just a detail. IMO, of course.

I think in certain family types, boundaries are adhered to so naturally that people don't even really think about them, you know? But just because someone has never had a talk with family members about boundaries, it doesn't mean there aren't any. It just means they've never been a problem. Again, IMO.

Lynne2000, this was such an enlightening post for me.  I'm often viewing threads on this board and I have to admit that sometimes, I have thought that the OP was the problem, not her "interfering" family  (there are times when I might still think that is true too).  And everyone is talking about boundries and I've never heard of such a thing and I cannot blieve that posters are telling posters to cut off her family, etc.  For some reason, your post really struck a cord with me.  I've never had to deal with boundry issues because they exist naturally already, or are often times, not even necessary or wanted in my family.  My Mom was and is the most amazing wonderful Mom that a person could dream of, and so anthing she recommended to me about raising my child, or anything she did while my child was in her care, woul be fine by me becuase, Lord, the woman knows what she's doing!

[Samantha]

I just had an idea... Is it possible that your youngest got his hands on the scissors, and cut his hair himself? Or that a sibling did it, and your Mom is telling you that SHE cut his hair, because she doesn't want you to know that she left the scissors out where the kids could reach them?

It's a stretch, but knowing how kids are, it's also a possibility. Heck, when I was in high school, a classmate came to school with her hair butchered because her baby sister (age 2) had managed to her hands on a pair of scissors and gave my classmate a haircut while she was sleeping.

[aventurine]

 I've never had to deal with boundry issues because they exist naturally already, or are often times, not even necessary or wanted in my family.  

Before I met Lapis and his family, I was the same way, auntmeegs.  I had friends who would complain about family stuff, or I'd see it on TV and in the movies, and I was like - I could not even relate.  

Then I met MiL, and the first 6 or so months were all right.  Before the year was out, though, those days were over and I was no longer taking my peaceful, low-drama family of origin, especially my mother, for granted.  

[Danika]

Danika, the only thing I would changed in your email was to say, "I am upset" (about the haircut) rather than "I was upset," but it's a small thing.

Done! Great idea, thanks. I'll send the email tomorrow.

I think the point is not the haircut or the baptism, though; it's that Grandma is deliberately doing things to/with the grandchildren that she knows--that any reasonable person would know--her daughter doesn't want done. There is a pattern of defiance and undermining in her behavior; and when confronted, she gets defensive instead of apologizing, and the next time the opportunity arises, she does what she wants again instead of stopping to think about her daughter's wishes.

Exactly!!! That's what I've been trying to articulate! Thank you for saying that. I kept trying to think of what auntmeegs said about the "'we're all in it together' style," and trying to think that maybe my mother just wasn't thinking. But it was when I told her several times, and underscored for her how upset I was that I realized that my mother just doesn't care about my feelings. She wasn't surprised that I was upset. She wasn't apologetic at all.

For the first several decades of my life, I always put my mother's feelings far above my own. Since she treated me horribly during my engagement (she refused to acknowledge I was marrying my husband because she wanted me to marry another wealthier friend of mine), I have put mine slightly above hers, when it comes to my own life. This has finally made me realize that I just don't care if she doesn't *get* it. The fact that *I* am upset, should be enough for her to apologize profusely and worry about my feelings. She can't do that, so I'm going to stop telling myself that maybe things aren't that big of a deal as I'm making them out to be.

And I will update you all with her response. I'm sure there will be drama. I'm curious to know if she will email me back freaking out or wait until we see her again in person and try to get my dad to join her in dogpiling me. I predict the latter.

I just had an idea... Is it possible that your youngest got his hands on the scissors, and cut his hair himself? Or that a sibling did it, and your Mom is telling you that SHE cut his hair, because she doesn't want you to know that she left the scissors out where the kids could reach them?

It's a stretch, but knowing how kids are, it's also a possibility. Heck, when I was in high school, a classmate came to school with her hair butchered because her baby sister (age 2) had managed to her hands on a pair of scissors and gave my classmate a haircut while she was sleeping.

He couldn't have done it himself because he turned one two weeks ago and he's still only standing, not walking yet. My 3 year old would probably have accidentally done him more harm, had she had the scissors in her hands. I did question the 3 year old, mainly to determine if my father was in the room when it happened, and what room the hair cut was in, etc. She would have told me had she had the scissors. But mainly, your good theory is debunked by the fact that my mother wouldn't fall on her own sword to cover for the 3 year old. She'd tell me the truth in that case. Or would at least unconvincingly lie. 

[inna.minnit]

When I was an infant, my mother was seriously injured and in the hospital.  My grandmother took me and my two sisters home to care for us.  While she had us there, she took my two sisters (3 and 6 years old) to the doctor and had their tonsils removed.  I guess I was too young, I still have my tonsils.

[Deetee]

I like your email. I also like you leaving your options open. It's easy for us to say you should cut her off, but time (even a couple days a year) with your husband is an important thing as well.

When my two year old does something semibad, she gets a warning, she gets a tiny timeout (5-10 seconds of ignoring), then she gets the nuclear option (full 1-2 minutes of timeout). She learns. She adjusts. There is some weeping, but she learns. If she does something seriously BAD*, she goes direct to timeout, but something is generally not considered seriously BAD unless she has had the warning etc... on a previous occasion.

So starting with a few weeks without unsuperised visits and being willing to give up the weddings means you can see how she responds and go from there.


*Biting, hitting the face, hitting with a toy, hurting other babies, dumping cups of water on the floor, throwing toys indoors.