The Duchess of York on Being Excluded From Prince William's Wedding

[One Goat to Rule Them All]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

The Queen Mum was never "Elizabeth I".  Another Queen Reignant held that title several hundred years ago..

In the event that Prince Phillip would survive the Queen, he would simply still be called Prince Phillip.  It would be no different than other royal consorts who had survived their spouses.  Queen Alexandra retained her title after her husband's death, as did Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother).  As PPs have said, the term "Queen Mother" had never been in popular use historically, but in this case was due to simple necessity because of mother and daughter having the same first name.

So for a brief period in the early 1950s Great Britain had three ladies who could rightfully be addressed as Queen.

Oh man, I shouldn't have written my post so late at night, I do know who the real Elizabeth I was!

And, by the way, my post was firmly tongue in cheek. I know he would still be Prince Phillip 

[CharlieBraun]

Maybe it's just me, but I form my own relationships with the spouses of my family members. Even after a divorce, the relationship is still there and so I would have invited Sarah, even though she was no longer married to my uncle.

As for her behavior, are people talking about the cheating? Given that Charles, Diana, and Andrew all cheated it seems a bit hypocritical to cast stones at Sarah for doing the same thing.

Andrew was never accused of or alleged to have had extramarital affairs while married to Sarah Ferguson.  She, on the other hand, had more than one.

-------------

Victoria Lockwood, the first wife of Earl Spencer, was not invited to the wedding; she is also the ex-wife of one of William's uncles, and her children were invitees.  Sarah stands in no closer relationship than Ms. Lockwood, yet expected an invitation.  Sarah has overreached herself on many an occasion, but never so spectacularly as this.

Her whining about it was really dreadful.

[Sharnita]

Speaking of Dukes of York - The last two Kings were Dukes of York who were not expected to inherit the throne.*

Considering the current Duke of York, that's a little scary.

*George V's older brother died before his father, and George VI's brother abdicated.  Neither had children.  Since the current Prince of Wales has William and Henry, I doubt it will be a problem.  Still...it is scary.

I see that someone's already beaten me to the correction that it was two out of the last three kings: King Edward VIII (later the Duke of Windsor) was Prince of Wales, not Duke of York, prior to becoming King.

Interesting fact about King George V's older brother (Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence): at the time of his death, he was engaged to be married.  (Can you imagine if Wills had died before the wedding?)  What is a young woman to do when she's engaged to the heir to the throne, but he dies unexpectedly?  Why, get engaged to his younger brother, who's now the new heir!  That's what Albert Victor's fiancee did!  Her name was Princess Victoria Mary Augusta Louise Olga Pauline Claudine Agnes May, known as May -- and later, of course, Queen Mary.

Apprarently when the Duke of Clarence was on his deathbed, he was calling the name of the woman he'd really wanted to marry - a "Helene".  I don't know any more than that, but what would it have mattered?  Royal engagements were not expected to be love matches, in those days.

I'd think that the powers-that-be figured it was the most sensible solution.  While May's origins were German, she'd been living with her impoverished parents in England for quite some time, and was else was she to do?  I think she and George V did come to love each other in their own way.

Yeah, back in the good ol' days (continuing through 1981, I guess) a prince was expected to marry a virgin of proper breeding, not the woman he really loved.

My guess is that the virgin thing was meant to help assure paternity in the pre-DNA days. 

[Kendo_Bunny]

(Comparing her to a chipmunk, really Tycha?  on ehell?  That disappoints me.)

Just as a note: the video is of a prairie dog looking startled. I'd look the same way if I saw someone with that on their head. Doesn't mean she's not a beautiful young lady, but that is a seriously odd hat. Which is tradition in the royal family, so there's that.

[LaciGirl007]

(Comparing her to a chipmunk, really Tycha?  on ehell?  That disappoints me.)

Just as a note: the video is of a prairie dog looking startled. I'd look the same way if I saw someone with that on their head. Doesn't mean she's not a beautiful young lady, but that is a seriously odd hat. Which is tradition in the royal family, so there's that.

A seriously odd hat that's currently going for the jaw-dropping bid of over US$81,000 on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Princess-Beatrice-Royal-Wedding-Hat-Philip-Treacy-/230620500557?pt=Women_s_Accessories_UK&hash=item35b20d924d#ht_2715wt_1000

[BB-VA]

(Comparing her to a chipmunk, really Tycha?  on ehell?  That disappoints me.)

Just as a note: the video is of a prairie dog looking startled. I'd look the same way if I saw someone with that on their head. Doesn't mean she's not a beautiful young lady, but that is a seriously odd hat. Which is tradition in the royal family, so there's that.

A seriously odd hat that's currently going for the jaw-dropping bid of over US$81,000 on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Princess-Beatrice-Royal-Wedding-Hat-Philip-Treacy-/230620500557?pt=Women_s_Accessories_UK&hash=item35b20d924d#ht_2715wt_1000

That's the hat under discussion.

BTW, I have seen it called a fascinator.  I thought fascinators were smaller.

That said, as much attention as it is getting, I suppose it is sorta fascinating...

I still think it needs a little bird perched on it somewhere.

[mechtilde]

^  Over £50 000! Wow!

Maybe it will make five figures!

Returning to the topic- well CAptain Mark Phillips wasn't invited, but I don't hear him complaining to Oprah.

This is not going to go down well with either Prince William or Prince Harry. They really hate people talking to the press.

[Lisbeth]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

He'd still be Prince Phillip.

The Queen Mother was given that name (officially Queen Elizabeth the Queen's Mother) as normally the title for a Queen in this case is Queen Dowager. She hated that and came up with her own version. If her daughter had a different name then she probably would have been refered to as Queen Elizabeth still, as Queen Mary was.

The Queen Mother is the Queen Mother because she is the mother of the monarch.  If that were not the case, she would not be Queen Mother but Queen Dowager only.

[Winterlight]

^  Over £50 000! Wow!

Maybe it will make five figures!

Returning to the topic- well CAptain Mark Phillips wasn't invited, but I don't hear him complaining to Oprah.

This is not going to go down well with either Prince William or Prince Harry. They really hate people talking to the press.

He's not promoting a TV show- in any case, he's shown total disinterest in talking to the press. He also seems to have better sense than to run his mouth.

[still in va]

^  Over £50 000! Wow!

Maybe it will make five figures!

Returning to the topic- well CAptain Mark Phillips wasn't invited, but I don't hear him complaining to Oprah.

This is not going to go down well with either Prince William or Prince Harry. They really hate people talking to the press.

He's not promoting a TV show- in any case, he's shown total disinterest in talking to the press. He also seems to have better sense than to run his mouth.

very sad that Sarah Ferguson doesn't get it.  she seems to think that she can come to the US and make such statements, then she is surprised that her statements make their way back to England and they are held against her.  i like Fergie.  i always did.  but she should know better than to embarrass her former in-laws.  they have a lot more power than most in-laws do.  and thus she was not invited to her nephew's wedding.  not sure she would have been invited anyway, since divorced aunts and uncles weren't invited as a whole, but making her comments ensured she would be excluded. 

in addition, she invoked the memory of Diana.  William and Harry are very protective of their mother's memory.  so Fergie pretty much wiped out any support she would have had in that quarter.

as to her lamenting that she would have loved to have helped her daughters dress for William's wedding.  well, she could have been in whichever palace the girls were dressing in, and shared that experience with them.  just because she isn't going to the wedding didn't mean she couldn't have been there for her girls.

[blue2000]

Her girls are older now. They may have wanted to go by themselves. But if they were dressing in a palace/royal residence with their cousins or other relatives, would Fergie have been allowed to join them? I don't think the royal family would make a public fuss over it, but they might politely suggest she make other plans.

[aventurine]

And look at Princess Anne.  For a long time she was considered the most unpopular Royal - probably because she didn't give a fig about what journalists/photographers wanted to see.  Even when she wasn't being a champion equestrienne, she was mucking about doing work for charities such as the Save The Children Fund, rather than appearing in formal gowns at charity balls.

And. I. Love. Her. for it.  She's always been my favorite, for the very reasons you state.  Go Anne, get it girl!!

[onikenbai]

Even if Fergie had gone to the wedding it would have been awkward since she wouldn't have been allowed to sit with her daughters anyway as she is no longer a member of the royal family.  She would have been put in with the masses, probably somewhere between Elton John and the owner of the convenience store Kate frequented.  I doubt she would have stood for the indignity of that.  It was much better overall that she did not attend.  I do believe William was quite willing to have her there though, if she wanted to be.

The Obamas didn't get to go because the US isn't part of the Commonwealth.  As William is not yet king, his marriage is not technically a state affair, it's an internal matter.  Probably the biggest non-event of the century.

[Sharnita]

Turns out Obama had a different event planned a few days later so probably not the biggest blip on his radar.

[Lynn2000]

I love royalty threads. You guys have such great perspectives, both on the current people and the historical ones.

One thing I haven't seen directly mentioned--I think even if William and Kate wanted to/would've been okay with inviting Fergie, this is one wedding where I would never tell the HC, "It's your wedding! Stand up for yourself against the relative paying for it!"  I am guessing the Queen had final say over the guest list and if she didn't want Fergie in attendance, it wasn't happening. Not that I'm on either team (Team Queen?) but I think it's kind of fun to imagine all the wedding-planning advice we would not expect this particular couple to abide by... "Oh, you don't want the fuss of a big wedding? Grow a spine, elope to Vegas!" (Gretna Green?)