The Duchess of York on Being Excluded From Prince William's Wedding

[Queen of Clubs]

Given William's staunch desire for privacy (and who can blame him after his mother's fate??), I think it would've been a cold day in Hades before anyone who had tried to sell access to the family would be invited to his wedding.  Fergie made her own bed, she can lie in it.  Going on Oprah to complain about it is gauche, especially since she's just doing it to promote her new show.  Originally, she was very understanding about the lack of an invitation.

I agree.  Also, I believe Mark Phillips (ex-husband of Princess Anne, father of Peter and Zara Phillips) wasn't invited either.  I haven't heard any complaints or "why not?" about that, and he's in the same position as Sarah - an ex-spouse.  But maybe because he hasn't been on Oprah whining about it or releasing statements to the press.

As for Eugenie's outfit, she looked fantastic in the evening.  She wore a red evening gown and it suited her far, far more than her daytime outfit.

[LaciGirl007]

Speaking of Dukes of York - The last two Kings were Dukes of York who were not expected to inherit the throne.*

Considering the current Duke of York, that's a little scary.

*George V's older brother died before his father, and George VI's brother abdicated.  Neither had children.  Since the current Prince of Wales has William and Henry, I doubt it will be a problem.  Still...it is scary.

I see that someone's already beaten me to the correction that it was two out of the last three kings: King Edward VIII (later the Duke of Windsor) was Prince of Wales, not Duke of York, prior to becoming King.

Interesting fact about King George V's older brother (Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence): at the time of his death, he was engaged to be married.  (Can you imagine if Wills had died before the wedding?)  What is a young woman to do when she's engaged to the heir to the throne, but he dies unexpectedly?  Why, get engaged to his younger brother, who's now the new heir!  That's what Albert Victor's fiancee did!  Her name was Princess Victoria Mary Augusta Louise Olga Pauline Claudine Agnes May, known as May -- and later, of course, Queen Mary.

[kareng57]

Speaking of Dukes of York - The last two Kings were Dukes of York who were not expected to inherit the throne.*

Considering the current Duke of York, that's a little scary.

*George V's older brother died before his father, and George VI's brother abdicated.  Neither had children.  Since the current Prince of Wales has William and Henry, I doubt it will be a problem.  Still...it is scary.

I see that someone's already beaten me to the correction that it was two out of the last three kings: King Edward VIII (later the Duke of Windsor) was Prince of Wales, not Duke of York, prior to becoming King.

Interesting fact about King George V's older brother (Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence): at the time of his death, he was engaged to be married.  (Can you imagine if Wills had died before the wedding?)  What is a young woman to do when she's engaged to the heir to the throne, but he dies unexpectedly?  Why, get engaged to his younger brother, who's now the new heir!  That's what Albert Victor's fiancee did!  Her name was Princess Victoria Mary Augusta Louise Olga Pauline Claudine Agnes May, known as May -- and later, of course, Queen Mary.

Apprarently when the Duke of Clarence was on his deathbed, he was calling the name of the woman he'd really wanted to marry - a "Helene".  I don't know any more than that, but what would it have mattered?  Royal engagements were not expected to be love matches, in those days.

I'd think that the powers-that-be figured it was the most sensible solution.  While May's origins were German, she'd been living with her impoverished parents in England for quite some time, and was else was she to do?  I think she and George V did come to love each other in their own way.

[One Goat to Rule Them All]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

[kareng57]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

The Queen Mum was never "Elizabeth I".  Another Queen Reignant held that title several hundred years ago..

In the event that Prince Phillip would survive the Queen, he would simply still be called Prince Phillip.  It would be no different than other royal consorts who had survived their spouses.  Queen Alexandra retained her title after her husband's death, as did Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother).  As PPs have said, the term "Queen Mother" had never been in popular use historically, but in this case was due to simple necessity because of mother and daughter having the same first name.

So for a brief period in the early 1950s Great Britain had three ladies who could rightfully be addressed as Queen.

[Lauren]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

He'd still be Prince Phillip.

The Queen Mother was given that name (officially Queen Elizabeth the Queen's Mother) as normally the title for a Queen in this case is Queen Dowager. She hated that and came up with her own version. If her daughter had a different name then she probably would have been refered to as Queen Elizabeth still, as Queen Mary was.

[Ceiling Fan]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

Prince Pops

[LaciGirl007]

Speaking of Dukes of York - The last two Kings were Dukes of York who were not expected to inherit the throne.*

Considering the current Duke of York, that's a little scary.

*George V's older brother died before his father, and George VI's brother abdicated.  Neither had children.  Since the current Prince of Wales has William and Henry, I doubt it will be a problem.  Still...it is scary.

I see that someone's already beaten me to the correction that it was two out of the last three kings: King Edward VIII (later the Duke of Windsor) was Prince of Wales, not Duke of York, prior to becoming King.

Interesting fact about King George V's older brother (Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence): at the time of his death, he was engaged to be married.  (Can you imagine if Wills had died before the wedding?)  What is a young woman to do when she's engaged to the heir to the throne, but he dies unexpectedly?  Why, get engaged to his younger brother, who's now the new heir!  That's what Albert Victor's fiancee did!  Her name was Princess Victoria Mary Augusta Louise Olga Pauline Claudine Agnes May, known as May -- and later, of course, Queen Mary.

Apprarently when the Duke of Clarence was on his deathbed, he was calling the name of the woman he'd really wanted to marry - a "Helene".  I don't know any more than that, but what would it have mattered?  Royal engagements were not expected to be love matches, in those days.

I'd think that the powers-that-be figured it was the most sensible solution.  While May's origins were German, she'd been living with her impoverished parents in England for quite some time, and was else was she to do?  I think she and George V did come to love each other in their own way.

Yeah, back in the good ol' days (continuing through 1981, I guess) a prince was expected to marry a virgin of proper breeding, not the woman he really loved.

[BB-VA]

Speaking of Dukes of York - The last two Kings were Dukes of York who were not expected to inherit the throne.*

Considering the current Duke of York, that's a little scary.

*George V's older brother died before his father, and George VI's brother abdicated.  Neither had children.  Since the current Prince of Wales has William and Henry, I doubt it will be a problem.  Still...it is scary.

I see that someone's already beaten me to the correction that it was two out of the last three kings: King Edward VIII (later the Duke of Windsor) was Prince of Wales, not Duke of York, prior to becoming King.

Interesting fact about King George V's older brother (Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence): at the time of his death, he was engaged to be married.  (Can you imagine if Wills had died before the wedding?)  What is a young woman to do when she's engaged to the heir to the throne, but he dies unexpectedly?  Why, get engaged to his younger brother, who's now the new heir!  That's what Albert Victor's fiancee did!  Her name was Princess Victoria Mary Augusta Louise Olga Pauline Claudine Agnes May, known as May -- and later, of course, Queen Mary.

I phrased that badly about the Dukes of York - I should have said that the two previous Dukes of York became King.  Sorry!!

I do believe, from what I have read about them, that George V and Queen Mary did come to love each other.  Also, George V, despite his crankiness, came to respect his second son and adored his granddaughter. 

[BB-VA]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

He'd still be Prince Phillip.

The Queen Mother was given that name (officially Queen Elizabeth the Queen's Mother) as normally the title for a Queen in this case is Queen Dowager. She hated that and came up with her own version. If her daughter had a different name then she probably would have been refered to as Queen Elizabeth still, as Queen Mary was.

I wonder, too, if it was because when George VI died, there was already a dowager queen (Queen Mary). 

[BB-VA]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

The Queen Mum was never "Elizabeth I".  Another Queen Reignant held that title several hundred years ago..

In the event that Prince Phillip would survive the Queen, he would simply still be called Prince Phillip.  It would be no different than other royal consorts who had survived their spouses.  Queen Alexandra retained her title after her husband's death, as did Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother).  As PPs have said, the term "Queen Mother" had never been in popular use historically, but in this case was due to simple necessity because of mother and daughter having the same first name.

So for a brief period in the early 1950s Great Britain had three ladies who could rightfully be addressed as Queen.

Only Queens Regnant get numbers, not Queens Consort.  Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother was the consort of George VI, but her daughter Elizabeth II is a queen regnant, ruling in her own right.

[kareng57]

If Elizabeth I became the "Queen Mum" after her husband died, what would Prince Phillip be called if he survives Elizabeth II? The "Prince Dad"?

He'd still be Prince Phillip.

The Queen Mother was given that name (officially Queen Elizabeth the Queen's Mother) as normally the title for a Queen in this case is Queen Dowager. She hated that and came up with her own version. If her daughter had a different name then she probably would have been refered to as Queen Elizabeth still, as Queen Mary was.

I wonder, too, if it was because when George VI died, there was already a dowager queen (Queen Mary). 

I don't think that had anything to do with it.  The term Queen Mother came into mainstream use in this case simply in order to clarify which Queen Elizabeth people were talking about.

However, I believe royal officials generally did not use the term.  If they said Queen Elizabeth, everyone knew they meant the Queen's mother.  If they were talking about the reigning queen, they simply said The Queen.

[kareng57]

Speaking of Dukes of York - The last two Kings were Dukes of York who were not expected to inherit the throne.*

Considering the current Duke of York, that's a little scary.

*George V's older brother died before his father, and George VI's brother abdicated.  Neither had children.  Since the current Prince of Wales has William and Henry, I doubt it will be a problem.  Still...it is scary.

I see that someone's already beaten me to the correction that it was two out of the last three kings: King Edward VIII (later the Duke of Windsor) was Prince of Wales, not Duke of York, prior to becoming King.

Interesting fact about King George V's older brother (Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence): at the time of his death, he was engaged to be married.  (Can you imagine if Wills had died before the wedding?)  What is a young woman to do when she's engaged to the heir to the throne, but he dies unexpectedly?  Why, get engaged to his younger brother, who's now the new heir!  That's what Albert Victor's fiancee did!  Her name was Princess Victoria Mary Augusta Louise Olga Pauline Claudine Agnes May, known as May -- and later, of course, Queen Mary.

I phrased that badly about the Dukes of York - I should have said that the two previous Dukes of York became King.  Sorry!!

I do believe, from what I have read about them, that George V and Queen Mary did come to love each other.  Also, George V, despite his crankiness, came to respect his second son and adored his granddaughter. 

Yes.  He adored Elizabeth and her daughters and was gaining new respect for the second son that he had always considered to be awkward.  My guess is that during the years before his death, he was starting to see a disaster-in-the-making once Edward ascended.

[KenveeB]

Yes.  He adored Elizabeth and her daughters and was gaining new respect for the second son that he had always considered to be awkward.  My guess is that during the years before his death, he was starting to see a disaster-in-the-making once Edward ascended.

George is said to have said, when it looked like Edward just would never marry and have his own heirs, "Thank God nothing will stand between Bertie and Lillibet and the throne." 

[kareng57]

Yes.  He adored Elizabeth and her daughters and was gaining new respect for the second son that he had always considered to be awkward.  My guess is that during the years before his death, he was starting to see a disaster-in-the-making once Edward ascended.

George is said to have said, when it looked like Edward just would never marry and have his own heirs, "Thank God nothing will stand between Bertie and Lillibet and the throne." 

You and Wendelenn must be telepathic.

Neither Bertie or Elizabeth wanted the throne, and I don't think that Lilibet did, either.  However, they were happy with their small family - "us four" as Bertie called it - and felt no need to suddenly start trying for a son.  They just accepted the situation.