Etiquette and Personal Saftey

[NOVA Lady]

I just wanted to put this out there as a little warning that one CAN be too nice, and sometimes you need to drop your manners for personal safety!

What happened was this (and I will try to be as brief as possible):

Last night the Mr. was working late and going out with a friend so I was on my own for dinner. Well since I was too lazy to make much of anything I decided to go to the local pub, about ˝ mile away from my home. I get to the bar and there is no way for me to find a seat with a suffer seat on each side so I will need to sit next to someone. I pick a seat near a guy that has the most room, I order my drink and take a menu. (just as a note about the bar, it’s a country bar and most of the staff know me and my SO there, which is why I picked it and I didn’t sit in a booth because I feel silly eating there alone and if I sit there I cannot chat with anyone!)

But the guy next to me looks normal enough and waits for me to order before starting to talk to me. I have NO problem with chatting with people around a bar when we’re all alone, I think its nice. But this guy just creeped me out. He started with the usual, “So what do you like to eat here”, and, “Do you come here a lot” but then quickly turned to really personally pointed questions, “What do you do for a living” “How do you spend your free time” “How close to here do you live”. I deflected those questions with vague answers, “I’m in accounting” “The usual” “Not too far.” And  basically tried to discourage further conversation by my tone and by actually physically turning my body away from him so I would actually have to turn my head backwards to speak to him.

Well he waited a few more minutes and asked me if I country line dance/contra danced (there was a lesson going on in the dance floor and I was watching it to further ignore him) and I told him me and my SO had taken a few lessons. The conversation that followed went like this. Me is ME and Creepy guy is “CG”

CG: So, when the lesson finishes will you dance with me?
ME: No, I’m sorry I don’t care to dance tonight.
CG: Well how about I take you to the movies sometimes?
ME: (stunned) No.
CG: (Laughing) Well why not?
ME: I am attached.
CG: Me too, but we have an open relationship so I still go out with lots of girls.
ME: Ummmm….
CG: Have you thought about having an open relationship
ME: NO! (mercifully food comes)

I get to take one bite of my sandwich (pulled pork BBQ, yuuuuum) before CG is at it again. This time he is trying to convince me to go to some “center” for a new members orientation so that I can learn how to maximize my life’s potential (and I will be honest here, I initially thought this man might simply be mentally challenge/slower so I was trying not to be a big B*tch and originally though the center where he took “lessons” was some sort rehabilitation clinic to reach independence or something). I said no about 5 times and he just kept pushing. Finally this conversation: (All the while I am trying to eat my food BTW)

CG: Come on, just come to the orientation, if you don’t like it you’ll be free to leave at any time. You wont lose anything and can gain so much.
ME: (hungry and frustrated) No, and to be honest with you it sounds like a cult. Drop it!
CG: Oh its not a cult, its not religious at all.
ME: I said NO.
CG: What you don’t believe in god?
Me: NO, can I just eat here?
CG: Well then how did we get put on earth?
Me: OK, that’s it. I am moving.
CG: What did I do?
Me: Icy silence.

So I lugged all my various crap next to some other guy at the bar. Me and the other guy happily ate our food and watched the football on TV and chatted back and forth about the professional league and some teams we had in common, as in normal bar conversation. I explained my move to him and the bartender (who told me she would have let me know not to sit there to begin with).

Well about 30 minutes later the CG decided to leave and did so (or so I thought) and about 35 minutes after that I decided to head out. Well when I went down the hallway (where a security person sits) this FREAK was standing by the door “fake” talking on his cell phone. The second I walked out the door he followed. Luckily my car was parked directly next to the stairs and the security guard must have sensed something was up (well I know him and I shot him a HELP look) and walked onto the patio to walk me get into my car before he went in.

Well CG gets in his car and just sits in and stares at me! At this point I realize I cannot move my car because I don’t want this guy following me home! I think about just driving around and loosing him, or that maybe he wont follow me (he would, the second I start my car and started edging, he started him car). So the only option I had was to sprint back inside the bar.

I felt silly but my heart was pumping and I was super freaked out. I told the security guard what happened and he took care of the gentleman. I got home safely and all that. But I could have just as easily been a victim. All because I didn’t want to be rude to someone at a bar! It just rattled me!

[Suze]

you did the right thing by going back into the bar !!  CG was (in my opinion a stalker)

You were lucky that there was a security guard there. 

It would have been intresting to find out just WHERE this "center" was (but not by talking to HIM) and what it was. (Ok - I have a very big snoopy gene, sorry)

I'm glad you are safe and sound!

Oh and CG was not a gentleman - he is and forever will be a CREEP

[Hawkwatcher]

I think you are going to get a lot of responses because I am afraid that being "too polite" is a common mistake.  In other words, you should not feel too bad because you are not alone.  I  personally have been in similar situations where I have allowed myself to be drawn into conversations because I was too polite for my own good and kicked myself afterwards.  Usually I get drawn into conversations about other people's hallucinations and paranoid fantasies. 

I did have a guy follow me once claiming that he knew me and he offered my a ride home several times.  I was polite, which was stupid because I should have been screaming bloody murder, but I would not get into his car.  Of course he assured me that he was not a "creep" and we all know  that serial killers wear signs saying "creep."  He then tried to sell me insurance.  No, I did not buy insurance from him.     

The good thing is that you are safe and hopefully the pub will ban him as a customer.

[Bijou]

Glad you are here to tell the tale.  I am surprised that the pub allows him into the place.  They should bar him for the protection of their cusomers.  Pretty scary stuff.  You did right to not lead him to your neigborhood.  I had a guy follow me in his truck one morning at 5 or 6 am as I went to work.  I led him right to the police station.  As he passed by I got his license plate number and reported him.

[Lisbeth]

I think that when the guy made the comment about open relationships I would have said, "Excuse me, please," and walked away.  And if he followed or made any other suggestive remarks, I would have asked the manager for help.

I agree-if someone really makes you feel creeped out to the point that you don't feel safe, getting safely away from them outweighs politeness.

[IndianInlaw]

If this happens to anyone here drive to the police station (if you have no cell phone) and LEAN ON THE HORN!!!!!!!!

Many nice police officers will come out and assist you.

[Secret]

Have you considered letting the pub know about his following you after he left?  Some people may not be as astute as you and the next woman may get in her car, not see him waiting outside and drive off with him following.  I know it isn't the bartender's job, but if they see him chatting up a woman again, perhaps they can warn her or at least the security guards know to watch out for him doing something similar.  

I would have also driven my car, saw he followed and went directly to the nearest police station.  But you did the right thing with the security guard.  I don't think that I would have thought that fast.  Has anyone else heard of the "rule" to check if you are being followed, you make 3 right turns in a row?  

[Adah]

What a scary experience. I've always listened to my intuition and it sounds like you did as well, as yours was throwing up red flags left and right. I might have written down the make and plate of the guy's car, a description of him and any personal details he revealed in his conversation with you (such as his name), just in case he enters your life again and you need to call the cops. 

[kherbert05]

You did the right thing. I probably wouldn't have  chanced getting out of my car. I would have driven to the nearest police station or laid down hard on the horn. I would check and make sure the manager/owner knows what happened so they can bann the jerk.

[HogwartsAlum]

If this happens to anyone here drive to the police station (if you have no cell phone) and LEAN ON THE HORN!!!!!!!!

Many nice police officers will come out and assist you.

That's absolutely good.  Under no circumstances go home!

What a scary experience. I've always listened to my intuition and it sounds like you did as well, as yours was throwing up red flags left and right. I might have written down the make and plate of the guy's car, a description of him and any personal details he revealed in his conversation with you (such as his name), just in case he enters your life again and you need to call the cops. 

Gavin de Becker, a leading security expert, wrote a book called "The Gift of Fear," in which he details the many signs that potentially violent people exhibit, and the ways in which women in particular, who are generally raised to be polite and caring toward other people, can be victimized by this attitude.  He says you should always pay attention to your gut, and don't worry about being polite when you are establishing personal boundaries! If someone won't take no for an answer, that person is NOT thinking of you, no matter what verbal tactics he uses ("I'm just trying to help"- guilting you; "Let's get these groceries inside" - forced teaming; etc.), he is thinking only of his own agenda. 

Everyone, women and men, should read this book. Please please please please.  If I had a gazillion dollars, I'd buy a copy for everyone.  EVERYONE.

[NOVA Lady]

If this happens to anyone here drive to the police station (if you have no cell phone) and LEAN ON THE HORN!!!!!!!!

Many nice police officers will come out and assist you.

That's absolutely good.  Under no circumstances go home!

What a scary experience. I've always listened to my intuition and it sounds like you did as well, as yours was throwing up red flags left and right. I might have written down the make and plate of the guy's car, a description of him and any personal details he revealed in his conversation with you (such as his name), just in case he enters your life again and you need to call the cops. 

Gavin de Becker, a leading security expert, wrote a book called "The Gift of Fear," in which he details the many signs that potentially violent people exhibit, and the ways in which women in particular, who are generally raised to be polite and caring toward other people, can be victimized by this attitude.  He says you should always pay attention to your gut, and don't worry about being polite when you are establishing personal boundaries! If someone won't take no for an answer, that person is NOT thinking of you, no matter what verbal tactics he uses ("I'm just trying to help"- guilting you; "Let's get these groceries inside" - forced teaming; etc.), he is thinking only of his own agenda. 

Everyone, women and men, should read this book. Please please please please.  If I had a gazillion dollars, I'd buy a copy for everyone.  EVERYONE.

Thank you for the book recommendation. The entire time the guy was talking to me I was creeped out by him. Mostly because we wouldn't take my verbal (short answers, no questions back, clearly not interested in engaging in the conversation) and non verbal (turning my body physically away from him, not looking at him when I spoke, scooting a little away from him, no smiles, etc) social cues like most people would have.

When I saw that he followed me out and then started his car as I started mine my heart just started beating 1000 times a second. It was an instant fear response.  If I hadn't been parked directly next to the door I wouldn't have run back in, I would have done as others said and driven to the police or fire station (the fire station is closer). His behavior just screamed stalker to me, and I got scared. The security guy at the bar (a Marine by day) took me completely seriously, wrote down his name, description and plate and he wont be allowed in again. I also took note of him and his car in case we bump into each other again.

[Clara Bow]

I was going to recommend the Gift of Fear. You have no idea how close you came to being a victim. That man was not safe. I also think that you should call the police, let them know what happened and have some extra patrols on your street for a while. If that guy was seriously determined there are ways to find you.
In addition, you should call the manager of the pub and report the incident. That man needs to be barred from the premises for the safety of other patrons. In the future, when you go there, have someone walk you out. In fact, do that wherever possible. Better to look a little wimpy than to look like a chalk outline.
I'm a personal safety nut and I want to tell you all that Indian Inlaw's advice about the police station was spot on the money. Also be sure that your cell phone is always charged. If someone is following you, call the police immediately. There's always a chance that you might not make it to the station.
I'm glad that you kept your cool and made it home safe. Society has overconditioned women to be polite to the detrement of our safety. Better rude than sorry. BTW, giving someone the blow-off when you don't want to talk to them is not rude...

[wetblanket]

If someone won't take no for an answer, that person is NOT thinking of you

Agreed.  This is a huge red flag in itself.  It applies to all kinds of relationships, but especially with strange men in bars.

Another thing you can do in this type of situation is drive directly to a police station.  Stalker-Boy would not follow you there!

[willow08]

Wow, I think you handled that really well. Though I would have probably asked for my sandwich to go after he started talking about the "center." I don't see anything rude or wrong with what you did. Sometimes etiquete HAS to take a back-seat to personal security when those instinct alarm bells start going off. Not driving immediately home and staying in a well-lit, secured area was very, very smart. I would probaly avoid this bar for a while.

Ladies, this is just another example of why we should never, ever leave drinks unattended in bars.

[Nekolove]

 

I'm so glad your'e okay!

Thanks for sharing the story with us, and thank you to all the responses with other advice. I hate that it happened to you, but women need to hear these stories more often.

And I'm definitely going to find that book!