Author Topic: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death  (Read 15535 times)

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Wonderflonium

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #225 on: June 23, 2011, 08:21:15 PM »
I don't think that the parents and family of any of the people involved in the accident deserved Ebert's casual quip. I believe he said it to be 'of the moment' and it certainly gave him the benefit of much publicity. I have little to no respect for him left.

You can believe that, but you don't know it for sure, and it doesn't seem fair to judge him on intentions that may or may not be there. I frankly don't think that was the case at all.

So many people in his life knew that he drove recklessly. April Margera said she told him to drive slower for a decade or more. Someone actually had him dying in an auto accident in a death pool. Other people had seen him drinking. If you know someone has been drinking and you know they drive recklessly even sober, yeah, you should try to stop them. That's what Ebert was trying to say. Too many people don't want to step in because they don't want to be a downer or a wuss or a priss or whatever. They don't want to seem uncool. In this case, being willing to be uncool could have saved 2 lives. I really don't see any way that's a bad message to get out there.

April made her concerns and comments about Ryan's driving PUBLIC. In my mind, I am sure she expressed them to Bam, Ryan, and anyone else who would listen. She BEGGED the crew to force him into treatment. I heard her discuss it quite clearly on the Preston & Steve show, long before this happened. I don't think this makes her a wuss, priss or uncool. I like and respect her, and believe her grief is very real, although she is not surprised.

The fact that she failed, despite her earnest PUBLIC efforts, makes her MORE worthy of care and sympathy in my opinion. I could make this argument for several people in the the friends/family group, but April is a good example.

I think you misunderstood me. I think what April said and the fact that she said it over and over was brilliant. What I think is a shame is that the people who were with Ryan and Zachary that night didn't step up and say the same thing that April did. I'm guessing most people in Ryan's life didn't, and that's part of the problem. I think as a mom, she doesn't have to worry about being seen as "uncool." It's the friends that didn't protest when he climbed behind the wheel that last time with whom I have a problem.
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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #226 on: June 23, 2011, 08:24:49 PM »
I don't think that the parents and family of any of the people involved in the accident deserved Ebert's casual quip. I believe he said it to be 'of the moment' and it certainly gave him the benefit of much publicity. I have little to no respect for him left.

You can believe that, but you don't know it for sure, and it doesn't seem fair to judge him on intentions that may or may not be there. I frankly don't think that was the case at all.

So many people in his life knew that he drove recklessly. April Margera said she told him to drive slower for a decade or more. Someone actually had him dying in an auto accident in a death pool. Other people had seen him drinking. If you know someone has been drinking and you know they drive recklessly even sober, yeah, you should try to stop them. That's what Ebert was trying to say. Too many people don't want to step in because they don't want to be a downer or a wuss or a priss or whatever. They don't want to seem uncool. In this case, being willing to be uncool could have saved 2 lives. I really don't see any way that's a bad message to get out there.

April made her concerns and comments about Ryan's driving PUBLIC. In my mind, I am sure she expressed them to Bam, Ryan, and anyone else who would listen. She BEGGED the crew to force him into treatment. I heard her discuss it quite clearly on the Preston & Steve show, long before this happened. I don't think this makes her a wuss, priss or uncool. I like and respect her, and believe her grief is very real, although she is not surprised.

The fact that she failed, despite her earnest PUBLIC efforts, makes her MORE worthy of care and sympathy in my opinion. I could make this argument for several people in the the friends/family group, but April is a good example.

I think you misunderstood me. I think what April said and the fact that she said it over and over was brilliant. What I think is a shame is that the people who were with Ryan and Zachary that night didn't step up and say the same thing that April did. I'm guessing most people in Ryan's life didn't, and that's part of the problem. I think as a mom, she doesn't have to worry about being seen as "uncool." It's the friends that didn't protest when he climbed behind the wheel that last time with whom I have a problem.

Precisely. A mother would certainly come forward and say this. The friends, definitely not. Especially considering they thought it was cool to take a death pool on their friends. As a family member, I'd be much angrier and upset by that than a Tweet such as Ebert made.
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Poirot

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #227 on: June 23, 2011, 08:29:51 PM »
I don't think that the parents and family of any of the people involved in the accident deserved Ebert's casual quip. I believe he said it to be 'of the moment' and it certainly gave him the benefit of much publicity. I have little to no respect for him left.

You can believe that, but you don't know it for sure, and it doesn't seem fair to judge him on intentions that may or may not be there. I frankly don't think that was the case at all.

So many people in his life knew that he drove recklessly. April Margera said she told him to drive slower for a decade or more. Someone actually had him dying in an auto accident in a death pool. Other people had seen him drinking. If you know someone has been drinking and you know they drive recklessly even sober, yeah, you should try to stop them. That's what Ebert was trying to say. Too many people don't want to step in because they don't want to be a downer or a wuss or a priss or whatever. They don't want to seem uncool. In this case, being willing to be uncool could have saved 2 lives. I really don't see any way that's a bad message to get out there.

April made her concerns and comments about Ryan's driving PUBLIC. In my mind, I am sure she expressed them to Bam, Ryan, and anyone else who would listen. She BEGGED the crew to force him into treatment. I heard her discuss it quite clearly on the Preston & Steve show, long before this happened. I don't think this makes her a wuss, priss or uncool. I like and respect her, and believe her grief is very real, although she is not surprised.

The fact that she failed, despite her earnest PUBLIC efforts, makes her MORE worthy of care and sympathy in my opinion. I could make this argument for several people in the the friends/family group, but April is a good example.

I think you misunderstood me. I think what April said and the fact that she said it over and over was brilliant. What I think is a shame is that the people who were with Ryan and Zachary that night didn't step up and say the same thing that April did. I'm guessing most people in Ryan's life didn't, and that's part of the problem. I think as a mom, she doesn't have to worry about being seen as "uncool." It's the friends that didn't protest when he climbed behind the wheel that last time with whom I have a problem.

I did misunderstand. Same page then.  :)
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Poirot

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #228 on: June 23, 2011, 08:32:52 PM »
I don't think that the parents and family of any of the people involved in the accident deserved Ebert's casual quip. I believe he said it to be 'of the moment' and it certainly gave him the benefit of much publicity. I have little to no respect for him left.

You can believe that, but you don't know it for sure, and it doesn't seem fair to judge him on intentions that may or may not be there. I frankly don't think that was the case at all.

So many people in his life knew that he drove recklessly. April Margera said she told him to drive slower for a decade or more. Someone actually had him dying in an auto accident in a death pool. Other people had seen him drinking. If you know someone has been drinking and you know they drive recklessly even sober, yeah, you should try to stop them. That's what Ebert was trying to say. Too many people don't want to step in because they don't want to be a downer or a wuss or a priss or whatever. They don't want to seem uncool. In this case, being willing to be uncool could have saved 2 lives. I really don't see any way that's a bad message to get out there.

April made her concerns and comments about Ryan's driving PUBLIC. In my mind, I am sure she expressed them to Bam, Ryan, and anyone else who would listen. She BEGGED the crew to force him into treatment. I heard her discuss it quite clearly on the Preston & Steve show, long before this happened. I don't think this makes her a wuss, priss or uncool. I like and respect her, and believe her grief is very real, although she is not surprised.

The fact that she failed, despite her earnest PUBLIC efforts, makes her MORE worthy of care and sympathy in my opinion. I could make this argument for several people in the the friends/family group, but April is a good example.

I think you misunderstood me. I think what April said and the fact that she said it over and over was brilliant. What I think is a shame is that the people who were with Ryan and Zachary that night didn't step up and say the same thing that April did. I'm guessing most people in Ryan's life didn't, and that's part of the problem. I think as a mom, she doesn't have to worry about being seen as "uncool." It's the friends that didn't protest when he climbed behind the wheel that last time with whom I have a problem.

Precisely. A mother would certainly come forward and say this. The friends, definitely not. Especially considering they thought it was cool to take a death pool on their friends. As a family member, I'd be much angrier and upset by that than a Tweet such as Ebert made.

I would agree, but in my opinion, that does NOT make Ebert's tweet less rude and insensitive.
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ydpubs

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #229 on: June 23, 2011, 08:34:27 PM »
Well, on that point we diverge. I don't think it was rude or untimely for him to say what he did.
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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #230 on: June 23, 2011, 08:39:49 PM »
Well, on that point we diverge. I don't think it was rude or untimely for him to say what he did.

Me neither...

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Poirot

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #231 on: June 23, 2011, 08:53:48 PM »
Well, on that point we diverge. I don't think it was rude or untimely for him to say what he did.

Me neither...

And that's totally fine with me!
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ydpubs

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #232 on: June 23, 2011, 08:54:20 PM »
Well, on that point we diverge. I don't think it was rude or untimely for him to say what he did.

Me neither...

And that's totally fine with me!

 ;D
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Master_Edward

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #233 on: June 23, 2011, 11:50:01 PM »
Yes those of you who think Ryan Dunn did something stupid and irresponsible (because he did!) and think that Ebert was rude and insensitive in his comments have a right to that opinion. And those of us who think Dunn did a stupid and reckless thing but think that Ebert's comments weren't rude and insensitive have a right to that opinion. Obviously we're never going to agree about it and that's that. This whole discussion/argument whatever you want to call it is going nowhere. So speaking for myself I'm done with this thread.

Ed.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 11:55:49 PM by Master_Edward »

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #234 on: June 24, 2011, 12:01:13 AM »
Yes those of you who think Ryan Dunn did something stupid and irresponsible (because he did!) and think that Ebert was rude and insensitive in his comments have a right to that opinion. And those of us who think Dunn did a stupid and reckless thing but think that Ebert's comments weren't rude and insensitive have a right to that opinion. Obviously we're never going to agree about it and that's that. This whole discussion/argument whatever you want to call it is going nowhere. So speaking for myself I'm done with this thread.

Ed.

I think that that was the conclusion that had been reached, yes.

Polite disagreement is absolutely fine and there have been some really interesting and divergent points raised in this thread. Good to read through and explore, IMO.

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #235 on: June 24, 2011, 01:24:28 AM »
I also think it is an assumption that his family are more hurt/upset by Ebert's post.  They might be, they might fell that he has given voice to some of their anger and frustration.  Some might resent it and some might support it.  I don't think we can make sweeping generalizations about how it impacts his loved ones.

I agree. I also think it's an assumption that Ebert was specifically trying to generate publicity for himself. He's extremely well-known and has a huge following; he doesn't need to stir up contrived publicity. Like many of us, he was probably angered by the sheer waste, preventable waste.

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #236 on: June 24, 2011, 10:08:52 AM »
I don't think that the parents and family of any of the people involved in the accident deserved Ebert's casual quip. I believe he said it to be 'of the moment' and it certainly gave him the benefit of much publicity. I have little to no respect for him left.
You can believe that, but you don't know it for sure, and it doesn't seem fair to judge him on intentions that may or may not be there. I frankly don't think that was the case at all.
Agree and I guess this is why I don't find Ebert's comment offensive.  Although, I don't find Ebert clever anyway...

I can certainly respect and understand the opposing view, but I don't share it.  And feelings toward Dunn have nothing to do with it.  I *love* Donkey.  I would never intentionally be rude to someone, but that show sings to my buried, wicked side.  Dunn's golf cart incident is still one of the funniest things I've seen. But he behaved like an idiot this week and it ended in tragedy.  His friends didn't have the ***** to take his keys, and their lack of action/integrity cost this world two people who were loved by many.  The friends need to be called on that. 

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #237 on: June 24, 2011, 10:42:07 AM »
I don't think that the parents and family of any of the people involved in the accident deserved Ebert's casual quip. I believe he said it to be 'of the moment' and it certainly gave him the benefit of much publicity. I have little to no respect for him left.
You can believe that, but you don't know it for sure, and it doesn't seem fair to judge him on intentions that may or may not be there. I frankly don't think that was the case at all.
Agree and I guess this is why I don't find Ebert's comment offensive.  Although, I don't find Ebert clever anyway...

I can certainly respect and understand the opposing view, but I don't share it.  And feelings toward Dunn have nothing to do with it.  I *love* Donkey.  I would never intentionally be rude to someone, but that show sings to my buried, wicked side.  Dunn's golf cart incident is still one of the funniest things I've seen. But he behaved like an idiot this week and it ended in tragedy.  His friends didn't have the ***** to take his keys, and their lack of action/integrity cost this world two people who were loved by many.  The friends need to be called on that. 


THis is also an assumption by everyone, including Ebert. Have you ever tried to wrestle keys from a determined, drunk person's hands? Especially a big guy? We have no way of knowing someone didn't try to stop him. There's also a possibility he snuck out without telling anyone he was leaving so no one knew he left. I've experienced both of these things myself. In the first case, cops could have been called, but perhaps his accident happened too quickly. Or perhaps he and the other guy were the only ones left and the other guy was too drunk to realize what was going on.

There are all sorts of non-proven facts being assumed. We have one mom of one of his friends on the record saying she cautioned him often about his reckless driving. A death pool to these guys is dark humor that I realize many on this board don't get or appreciate. If you ever listened to Howard Stern, they also made many jokes about a fellow show member, Artie Lange, about when he was going to die from an overdose or alcoholism and joining a death pool. It didn't mean they didn't care - in fact it was quite the opposite. Show members cared deeply and tried to help him many times. It was one of their ways to try and get him to wake up and realize what he was doing. Perhaps this was their way of telling Dunn the same.

The only thing we now know for sure are the facts of the accident. Everything else, including the judgement of the hypothetical inaction of his friends by Ebert and posters on this board, is assumption. And that's part of the problem. Sometimes adults cannot control the behavior of other adults no matter how much they want to. So for those saying it was ok for Ebert to chastise the living for allowing this to happen, I say he has no way of knowing what transpired in Ryan Dunn's life and between his family and friends, and I again, don't see how it was his place to do so.

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #238 on: June 24, 2011, 10:59:31 AM »
Agree and I guess this is why I don't find Ebert's comment offensive.  Although, I don't find Ebert clever anyway...

I can certainly respect and understand the opposing view, but I don't share it.  And feelings toward Dunn have nothing to do with it.  I *love* Donkey.  I would never intentionally be rude to someone, but that show sings to my buried, wicked side.  Dunn's golf cart incident is still one of the funniest things I've seen. But he behaved like an idiot this week and it ended in tragedy.  His friends didn't have the ***** to take his keys, and their lack of action/integrity cost this world two people who were loved by many. The friends need to be called on that.  

THis is also an assumption by everyone, including Ebert. Have you ever tried to wrestle keys from a determined, drunk person's hands? Especially a big guy? We have no way of knowing someone didn't try to stop him. There's also a possibility he snuck out without telling anyone he was leaving so no one knew he left. I've experienced both of these things myself. In the first case, cops could have been called, but perhaps his accident happened too quickly. Or perhaps he and the other guy were the only ones left and the other guy was too drunk to realize what was going on.
{...snip...}
The only thing we now know for sure are the facts of the accident. Everything else, including the judgement of the hypothetical inaction of his friends by Ebert and posters on this board, is assumption. And that's part of the problem. Sometimes adults cannot control the behavior of other adults no matter how much they want to. So for those saying it was ok for Ebert to chastise the living for allowing this to happen, I say he has no way of knowing what transpired in Ryan Dunn's life and between his family and friends, and I again, don't see how it was his place to do so.
This is a good point and I can tell you why I make the assumption (although I concede I could be mistaken).  This was a guy whose BFFs routinely knock each other out, whether in good fun or to prevent a dangerous situation.  I realize Knoxville & Co weren't present, so perhaps the people with him that night weren't as forward.  But it would not be unusual to punch someone to the point of unconsciousness in his circle. Perhaps Ryan did sneak out.  Perhaps the bartender should have stopped serving him, although he was reportedly buying rounds for a bar full of people, so not likely.  I very much doubt everyone in that room did everything that could be done.  And every night in a bar or at a party somewhere, the same mistake is made.  So if Ebert's comment makes one person think maybe they ought to try a little harder to hide the keys or stop serving alcohol or whatever, I think it is a good thing.

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #239 on: June 24, 2011, 11:08:07 AM »
To quote a Canadian court, you don't have to wrestle a person to the ground to get their keys. You call the police, and tell them there's a drunk driver on the road.

Yes, your friend gets arrested. He doesn't end up dead.

And people there knew he had at least 6 drinks, so I'm sure they knew he was over the limit. If he snuck out without their noticing? Fine, they did all they could.

By the way, if it's "routine" in their group to punch each other to unconsciousness, I'd say that friends also don't impose brain damage on friends. Someone suffering from repeated small brain injuries may indeed act more recklessly than someone without brain damage, or react to alcohol more strongly.

I still wish someone would point out what the insult to the dead is in Ebert's tweet. He WAS drunk, he WAS driving irresponsibly, and friends DON'T let friends drink and drive.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 11:10:49 AM by Twik »
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