Author Topic: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death  (Read 14027 times)

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Scuba_Dog

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #255 on: June 24, 2011, 01:51:26 PM »
I didn't find it snarky or unwarranted at all.  I felt (and share) the frustration of this man's death being ignored while the man who killed him is being cast in the light of a hero.  It's wrong and we are discussing it.  *here*

This *is* an emotional thread but so far we've all handled it quite well, I think.
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Mikayla

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #256 on: June 24, 2011, 01:51:51 PM »
Is there a reason you feel a need to inflict this sort of behavior on the rest of us *here*?

I emphasized his name because in this country, people remember the names of the killers, not the victims, and in my opinion, that's pretty twisted. It's even worse that people are acting like the killer is some kind of folk hero.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "inflict this sort of behavior." Frankly, it comes across as snarky and unwarranted

On the bolded....the case can be made that Hartwell is as much participant as victim.  In fact, that was the whole point of Ebert's tweet.  In a mess like this one, the only time I'd ever call someone a victim is if another vehicle became involved and someone in that car died.

Fleur-de-Lis

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #257 on: June 24, 2011, 01:54:14 PM »
I understand that you didn't like the emphasis; what I don't understand is why you phrased it as "inflicting this behavior," because that doesn't fit at all.

I'm also not sure why you would think it was not called for to emphasize the other victim's name here. Dunn killed 2 people with his stupidity, and I see nothing wrong with making sure the other person is not left out of the discussion. And as Bibliophile said, "here" is where we are discussing it, so "here" is where I am emphasizing it.

As far as I know, we have all been aware that two people were killed.  One of them happens to have name recognition, and is a significant portion of the reason we are discussing the matter at all.

Mr. Hartwell does not have name recognition for most of us; if he had been killed in any other circumstance, we probably would not be discussing his death to this extent at all.

And frankly, there is a level at which Mr. Hartwell was culpable in his own death - he chose to be a passenger when he knew the driver had had three shots and three beers.  Even if he thought Mr. Dunn was somehow "okay" to drive, he made the choice to take the risk.
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Wonderflonium

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #258 on: June 24, 2011, 01:58:21 PM »
I would never say that Hartwell was completely innocent; he most certainly should have known better than to get into the car. But, because he wasn't the one behind the wheel, I have much more sympathy for him. Both Dunn and Hartwell decided to get into a car being driven by someone who was impaired; however, Dunn alone made the decision to drive 130 mph, which without a doubt affected the severity of the crash. Had he been driving slower, they both might have lived.

(Sadly, I know 2 people who have had DUI-related accidents. Happily, they both walked away unharmed despite crashing into things, and speed was a major factor.)
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Fleur-de-Lis

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #259 on: June 24, 2011, 02:01:14 PM »
I didn't find it snarky or unwarranted at all.  I felt (and share) the frustration of this man's death being ignored while the man who killed him is being cast in the light of a hero.  It's wrong and we are discussing it.  *here*

This *is* an emotional thread but so far we've all handled it quite well, I think.

I just googled "Zachary Hartwell".  

All I can determine is he is a friend of Mr. Dunn, who was killed as a result of Mr. Dunn's reckless driving, presumably exacerbated by Mr. Dunn's prior alcohol consumption and the level of alcohol still in Mr. Dunn's bloodstream.  

As noted previously, Mr. Dunn has name recognition - even here.  Mr. Hartwell does not.  Nor has anyone here been eulogizing Mr. Dunn as a hero, or failing to acknowledge that Mr. Hartwell was killed, if only with the generic reference "passenger" or "friend".  

I see no reason to announce Mr. Hartwell's name in bold red typeface two to five font sizes larger than any of the surrounding text.

I do not particularly care that the name of the other victim was "Zachary Hartwell".  Mr. Hartwell chose his friends and chose his behavior.  

Putting Mr. Hartwell's name in bold red typeface does not make him any more of a known entity to me, and does not change my reflections on the circumstances of his death.
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Bibliophile

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #260 on: June 24, 2011, 02:04:03 PM »
I understand that you didn't like the emphasis; what I don't understand is why you phrased it as "inflicting this behavior," because that doesn't fit at all.

I'm also not sure why you would think it was not called for to emphasize the other victim's name here. Dunn killed 2 people with his stupidity, and I see nothing wrong with making sure the other person is not left out of the discussion. And as Bibliophile said, "here" is where we are discussing it, so "here" is where I am emphasizing it.

As far as I know, we have all been aware that two people were killed.  One of them happens to have name recognition, and is a significant portion of the reason we are discussing the matter at all.

Mr. Hartwell does not have name recognition for most of us; if he had been killed in any other circumstance, we probably would not be discussing his death to this extent at all.

And frankly, there is a level at which Mr. Hartwell was culpable in his own death - he chose to be a passenger when he knew the driver had had three shots and three beers.  Even if he thought Mr. Dunn was somehow "okay" to drive, he made the choice to take the risk.

Wonderflonium was responding to my post - where I specifically mentioned an instance where Dunn was paid tribute to, but there was no mention of Hartwell - I did not read it at all that she was chastising anyone on eHell...

Are we really discussing the font type a poster used to emphasize e a point? 

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Fleur-de-Lis

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #261 on: June 24, 2011, 02:11:22 PM »
I understand that you didn't like the emphasis; what I don't understand is why you phrased it as "inflicting this behavior," because that doesn't fit at all.

I'm also not sure why you would think it was not called for to emphasize the other victim's name here. Dunn killed 2 people with his stupidity, and I see nothing wrong with making sure the other person is not left out of the discussion. And as Bibliophile said, "here" is where we are discussing it, so "here" is where I am emphasizing it.

As far as I know, we have all been aware that two people were killed.  One of them happens to have name recognition, and is a significant portion of the reason we are discussing the matter at all.

Mr. Hartwell does not have name recognition for most of us; if he had been killed in any other circumstance, we probably would not be discussing his death to this extent at all.

And frankly, there is a level at which Mr. Hartwell was culpable in his own death - he chose to be a passenger when he knew the driver had had three shots and three beers.  Even if he thought Mr. Dunn was somehow "okay" to drive, he made the choice to take the risk.

Wonderflonium was responding to my post - where I specifically mentioned an instance where Dunn was paid tribute to, but there was no mention of Hartwell - I did not read it at all that she was chastising anyone on eHell...


No - we are discussing the fact that somebody felt it necessary to functionally scream to everybody on eHell the name of a person who was not being forgotten or disregarded because someone felt that person's killer was being inappropriately eulogized elsewhere.
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ydpubs

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #262 on: June 24, 2011, 02:12:11 PM »
I would never get in a car with someone who is impaired with booze or drugs, not unless I had a deathwish.

Unless Hartwell was unconscious when he was put in the car, he made the choice and a it was a bad one. He was in the Navy and did three tours in Iraq. He survived all that just to die a senseless death.

Truth be told, they are a whole group that has poor judgement, in fact revel in outrageous, dangerous behavior.

If Dunn had, hurt or killed other people on the road I'd have all the sympathy in the world for them. They would be the true victims in the scenario. But a bunch of people who routinely got drunk and drove? Nope, no sympathy from me. They all chose to live that way and Hartwell was one of them. He was in that picture with Dunn drinking away.

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #263 on: June 24, 2011, 02:13:00 PM »
I had surmised that the bold and red was for emphasis not directed at ehellions. :)
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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #264 on: June 24, 2011, 02:14:00 PM »

I still wish someone would point out what the insult to the dead is in Ebert's tweet. He WAS drunk, he WAS driving irresponsibly, and friends DON'T let friends drink and drive.

My offense was that it was tweeted right after the accident. Before ANY details were known... and yes, I get that Mr. Ebert has a large following, and is a well respected critic. I still feel he didn't just tweet it as a PSA. This isn't the first time he has made comments that put his name out there to a large group of people that barely recognize his name and don't factor him in as a celebrity/voice of reason/care about at all.  Search for an apology, and you will see it has been made, so he obviously felt bad about something, or realized that it was poorly timed/worded, or didn't have enough conviction to face the media firestorm that apparently has erupted.

I don't agree with drunk driving, I don't agree with killing people, and I don't agree that Ebert should have posted hours after a crash where nothing had been proven.  And I've almost been put in the hospital trying to get keys from a would be drunk driver, I've threatened my friends with the cops/actually called them when people were trying to drive, and several of us also have a death pool with each other.  Dark humor does not equal an absence of caring, and I can vouch that plenty of people were doing "Donkey" stunts and filming them for a while before this show... they were just one of the first to get a MTV contract.

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #265 on: June 24, 2011, 02:14:20 PM »
Caps lock is considered screaming; other functions, such as bold, italic, underline, color, etc, are used for emphasis.

And if I were screaming, which I was not, PPs are correct that it would not have been directed at eHellions.
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Wonderflonium

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #266 on: June 24, 2011, 02:17:08 PM »

I still wish someone would point out what the insult to the dead is in Ebert's tweet. He WAS drunk, he WAS driving irresponsibly, and friends DON'T let friends drink and drive.

My offense was that it was tweeted right after the accident. Before ANY details were known...

When he tweeted, it was known that Dunn had been drinking earlier in the night (because he himself had tweeted pictures showing the drinking). It was known that Dunn had a history of poor driving. It was 99.9% known that he was speeding, because you don't go over a guardrail and 40 yards through woods if you are driving at the posted speed.

I completely understand that you feel the tweet was ill-timed and uncalled for, but I don't think it's fair to say nothing was known about the circumstances of the crash.
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Scuba_Dog

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #267 on: June 24, 2011, 02:17:35 PM »
I would never get in a car with someone who is impaired with booze or drugs, not unless I had a deathwish.

Unless Hartwell was unconscious when he was put in the car, he made the choice and a it was a bad one. He was in the Navy and did three tours in Iraq. He survived all that just to die a senseless death.

Truth be told, they a whole group that has poor judgement, in fact revel in outrageous, dangerous behavior.

If Dunn had, hurt or killed other people on the road I'd have all the sympathy in the world for them. They would be the true victims in the scenario. But a bunch of people who routinely got drunk and drove? Nope, no sympathy from me. They all chose to live that way and Hartwell was one of them. He was in that picture with Dunn drinking away.



I see it a bit differently, at least for now.  The reason for that is we don't have enough information yet.  We don't know the circumstances that surround Dunn and Hartwell's departure from their last known destination.  So, right now, the blame for this (AFAIC) lies squarely on the shoulders of Dunn.

Although, to be honest, my opinion probably won't change much no matter the circumstances.  I will always place the blame of a drunk driving accident on that of the drunk driver.
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ydpubs

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #268 on: June 24, 2011, 02:18:07 PM »
I Googled and what I read didn't sound like an apology to me. He explained what he did and why he said what he said. That was all.
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Scuba_Dog

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Re: Roger Ebert Tweets Chastisement After Drunk Driving Death
« Reply #269 on: June 24, 2011, 02:19:33 PM »
I had surmised that the bold and red was for emphasis not directed at ehellions. :)

Me, too.  It was right in line with the current direction of the conversation.
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