News: There is a new Ehell Kindness Project!  Check it out in the "Extending the Hand of Kindness" folder or here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=139832.msg3372084#msg3372084   

  • June 27, 2016, 09:59:25 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Who wants to play judge?  (Read 3257 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mustard

  • Member
  • Posts: 1169
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2016, 04:37:54 AM »
A horrible dilemma, Rashea but I can't see how you can keep on working the equivalent of 3 full time jobs without something giving, either physically or mentally - if not both. I'm not trying to be mean when I say that you are enabling this situation to continue, but I can see why you would.  If the farm planner meeting hasn't got legs, perhaps you might consider telling your SO what you are prepared to do/are capable of doing without burning yourself into a frazzle, and then working to rule.

I hope it turns out well for you.

Another Sarah

  • Member
  • Posts: 855
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2016, 04:48:55 AM »
The situation is impossible to sustain. Right now I work full time, and I'm on call 2 weekends a month doing emergency work. In addition, I care for the goats entirely by myself. So I milk in the morning and milk and feed at night and do feet and such on the weekends. I also do all the cooking and cleaning. And I make cheese.

He works on farm equipment to get it ready for haying and does the haying. He used to maintain the vehicles, but is sticking with a shoulder problem.

He often does favors for people with the expectation that they will help him and then gets upset that they don't follow through. Then I end up stepping in to help.

I'm making efforts to get things more sustainable, both work load and financially, but this involves hard choices. I feel he's not willing to let some things go now in the hopes of getting where we want, and that's been causing a lot of tension. Right now I work from 6:30am-11pm most days, and it's impacting my health. (I used to use a wheelchair for pain relief and that problem is flaring up again with the work load.)

Because of that back story I'm not always sure that I'm not over sensitive. I feel like he takes his frustration out on me. And that he doesn't look out for the finances enough. And that he is the master of the non apology. It's adding up to enough stress to make things really tough, so I'm looking for a gut check.

It's really not fair for him to expect you to work 3 jobs to keep the pair of you afloat - on top of which you do all the cooking and cleaning and the goats and the cheese?
When was the last time you had any time off? When was the last time he did? And he's the one being passive aggressive with you? I think sonny boy deserves a bit of a rocket actually. It's all very well for this to be his dream but you're carrying the burden of it and it's time he shared it.

It's a mistake to have your plan be to expect other people to help you out - which seems to be his only plan. I get that he helps other people out but that's the thing about a favour - it's supposed to be no obligation and you can't rely on others to reciprocate - it's a hard lesson to learn but it has to be learnt. And again, you end up taking up the slack. :(

I get that this is a dream for him or for both of you, but part of achieving any dream is being realistic about how you do it. It sounds to me like he's launched into this just hoping it will all work out and the farm will be profitable immediately without any in between stages. That doesn't happen. Ever.

It seems to me like you both need to take a restock and look at your actual position.
Write out how much you can expect to earn from the farm by next year
Write out how much you can expect to pay out in bills etc by the same point
Compare the two. how does it look? Are you going to be in this same position this time next year? Have you got another year of this in you?
Make lists of the jobs that have to be done - including earning the money that pays for the farm.
Then look at what you can downsize. Can you afford to give up one of the jobs?
 If you own the land, could you rent some of it out and concentrate on a smaller area until you find your feet? That would give you an income as well so could you afford to let one of the jobs go if you did that?

At the end of the day, farming is a business and you have to approach it like one. If he isn't willing to put the planning side in, he's crippling his own business. That's setting himself up for failure from the start.
This probably all sounds very harsh but as you said yourself, this situation is unsustainable. It doesn't have to be. You can do this and you can get this dream to work, but changes have to happen, because right now, it isn't working, and the strain is telling on your relationship - and that's more important than any farm, ever.

LifeOnPluto

  • Member
  • Posts: 7786
    • Blog
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2016, 07:07:10 AM »
POD to Another Sarah. ^^^

Rashea, you are working an insane amount of hours. A lot of people would have quit after two weeks, said "stuff this!" and gone down the pub. This situation cannot be sustainable (at least, not without damaging your physical and mental health).

I would:

1) Pull back on your hours, and do only the bare necessities; and
2) Have a discussion with Emery, along the lines that Another Sarah set out above.

If Emery is not willing to have a reasonable discussion, and continues to believe that you should shoulder the main burden of helping him fulfill his dream, I'd cut right back on the farm stuff. Sell the goats if you have to. Let him handle it. He'll eventually figure out how to swim - or sink.

lovestoread

  • Member
  • Posts: 446
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2016, 07:48:09 AM »
The situation is impossible to sustain. Right now I work full time, and I'm on call 2 weekends a month doing emergency work. In addition, I care for the goats entirely by myself. So I milk in the morning and milk and feed at night and do feet and such on the weekends. I also do all the cooking and cleaning. And I make cheese.

He works on farm equipment to get it ready for haying and does the haying. He used to maintain the vehicles, but is sticking with a shoulder problem.

He often does favors for people with the expectation that they will help him and then gets upset that they don't follow through. Then I end up stepping in to help.

I'm making efforts to get things more sustainable, both work load and financially, but this involves hard choices. I feel he's not willing to let some things go now in the hopes of getting where we want, and that's been causing a lot of tension. Right now I work from 6:30am-11pm most days, and it's impacting my health. (I used to use a wheelchair for pain relief and that problem is flaring up again with the work load.)

Because of that back story I'm not always sure that I'm not over sensitive. I feel like he takes his frustration out on me. And that he doesn't look out for the finances enough. And that he is the master of the non apology. It's adding up to enough stress to make things really tough, so I'm looking for a gut check.

It's really not fair for him to expect you to work 3 jobs to keep the pair of you afloat - on top of which you do all the cooking and cleaning and the goats and the cheese?
When was the last time you had any time off? When was the last time he did? And he's the one being passive aggressive with you? I think sonny boy deserves a bit of a rocket actually. It's all very well for this to be his dream but you're carrying the burden of it and it's time he shared it.

It's a mistake to have your plan be to expect other people to help you out - which seems to be his only plan. I get that he helps other people out but that's the thing about a favour - it's supposed to be no obligation and you can't rely on others to reciprocate - it's a hard lesson to learn but it has to be learnt. And again, you end up taking up the slack. :(

I get that this is a dream for him or for both of you, but part of achieving any dream is being realistic about how you do it. It sounds to me like he's launched into this just hoping it will all work out and the farm will be profitable immediately without any in between stages. That doesn't happen. Ever.

It seems to me like you both need to take a restock and look at your actual position.
Write out how much you can expect to earn from the farm by next year
Write out how much you can expect to pay out in bills etc by the same point
Compare the two. how does it look? Are you going to be in this same position this time next year? Have you got another year of this in you?
Make lists of the jobs that have to be done - including earning the money that pays for the farm.
Then look at what you can downsize. Can you afford to give up one of the jobs?
 If you own the land, could you rent some of it out and concentrate on a smaller area until you find your feet? That would give you an income as well so could you afford to let one of the jobs go if you did that?

At the end of the day, farming is a business and you have to approach it like one. If he isn't willing to put the planning side in, he's crippling his own business. That's setting himself up for failure from the start.
This probably all sounds very harsh but as you said yourself, this situation is unsustainable. It doesn't have to be. You can do this and you can get this dream to work, but changes have to happen, because right now, it isn't working, and the strain is telling on your relationship - and that's more important than any farm, ever.

POD.

It's really not reasonable that you work so much additionally as well as helping on the farm.  Can Emory realistically not take over your duties with the goats and cheese at least?

Or pick up some of the slack with regards to cooking and cleaning.

I can appreciate that he's prepping the equipment for haying, but I feel that he may be dragging his feet with regards to doing other work.  In my line of work we deal a lot with farmers who have all different shapes and sizes of farms - diversification is both regularly done and achievable, but it sounds like Emory has blinders on, and perhaps it is a case of not managing his time effectively on the farm.




My first real blog!!  (all comments appreciate

Dazi

  • like the flower
  • Member
  • Posts: 5269
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2016, 07:48:45 AM »
OP, the bottom line is this: This situation is NOT sustainable--not for the short term, not for the long term. I'm honestly surprised you've managed as long as you have without having a breakdown.
Meditate. Live purely. Quiet the mind. Do your work with mastery. Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine. ---Gautama Buddah





catwhiskers

  • Member
  • Posts: 312
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2016, 09:56:09 AM »
It's really not fair for him to expect you to work 3 jobs to keep the pair of you afloat - on top of which you do all the cooking and cleaning and the goats and the cheese?
When was the last time you had any time off? When was the last time he did? And he's the one being passive aggressive with you? I think sonny boy deserves a bit of a rocket actually. It's all very well for this to be his dream but you're carrying the burden of it and it's time he shared it.

It's a mistake to have your plan be to expect other people to help you out - which seems to be his only plan. I get that he helps other people out but that's the thing about a favour - it's supposed to be no obligation and you can't rely on others to reciprocate - it's a hard lesson to learn but it has to be learnt. And again, you end up taking up the slack. :(

I get that this is a dream for him or for both of you, but part of achieving any dream is being realistic about how you do it. It sounds to me like he's launched into this just hoping it will all work out and the farm will be profitable immediately without any in between stages. That doesn't happen. Ever.

It seems to me like you both need to take a restock and look at your actual position.
Write out how much you can expect to earn from the farm by next year
Write out how much you can expect to pay out in bills etc by the same point
Compare the two. how does it look? Are you going to be in this same position this time next year? Have you got another year of this in you?
Make lists of the jobs that have to be done - including earning the money that pays for the farm.
Then look at what you can downsize. Can you afford to give up one of the jobs?
 If you own the land, could you rent some of it out and concentrate on a smaller area until you find your feet? That would give you an income as well so could you afford to let one of the jobs go if you did that?

At the end of the day, farming is a business and you have to approach it like one. If he isn't willing to put the planning side in, he's crippling his own business. That's setting himself up for failure from the start.
This probably all sounds very harsh but as you said yourself, this situation is unsustainable. It doesn't have to be. You can do this and you can get this dream to work, but changes have to happen, because right now, it isn't working, and the strain is telling on your relationship - and that's more important than any farm, ever.

I agree with this. I have my own business and if I wasn't making a decent living running it, I would close it down and find another job. It is totally unfair of your partner to expect you to run yourself into the ground like this to support his failing farm.

mime

  • Member
  • Posts: 1416
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2016, 10:44:14 AM »
It's really not fair for him to expect you to work 3 jobs to keep the pair of you afloat - on top of which you do all the cooking and cleaning and the goats and the cheese?
When was the last time you had any time off? When was the last time he did? And he's the one being passive aggressive with you? I think sonny boy deserves a bit of a rocket actually. It's all very well for this to be his dream but you're carrying the burden of it and it's time he shared it.

It's a mistake to have your plan be to expect other people to help you out - which seems to be his only plan. I get that he helps other people out but that's the thing about a favour - it's supposed to be no obligation and you can't rely on others to reciprocate - it's a hard lesson to learn but it has to be learnt. And again, you end up taking up the slack. :(

I get that this is a dream for him or for both of you, but part of achieving any dream is being realistic about how you do it. It sounds to me like he's launched into this just hoping it will all work out and the farm will be profitable immediately without any in between stages. That doesn't happen. Ever.

It seems to me like you both need to take a restock and look at your actual position.
Write out how much you can expect to earn from the farm by next year
Write out how much you can expect to pay out in bills etc by the same point
Compare the two. how does it look? Are you going to be in this same position this time next year? Have you got another year of this in you?
Make lists of the jobs that have to be done - including earning the money that pays for the farm.
Then look at what you can downsize. Can you afford to give up one of the jobs?
 If you own the land, could you rent some of it out and concentrate on a smaller area until you find your feet? That would give you an income as well so could you afford to let one of the jobs go if you did that?

At the end of the day, farming is a business and you have to approach it like one. If he isn't willing to put the planning side in, he's crippling his own business. That's setting himself up for failure from the start.
This probably all sounds very harsh but as you said yourself, this situation is unsustainable. It doesn't have to be. You can do this and you can get this dream to work, but changes have to happen, because right now, it isn't working, and the strain is telling on your relationship - and that's more important than any farm, ever.

I agree with this. I have my own business and if I wasn't making a decent living running it, I would close it down and find another job. It is totally unfair of your partner to expect you to run yourself into the ground like this to support his failing farm.

I agree with all of this, too. If having a farm is his dream, can it be realized on a smaller scale? That's a reality that many of us face with our own ambitions! Take care of your health; nothing of this is sustainable if you aren't healthy.

Best wishes to you, and I hope that you and he find a way to approach this whole thing as a team.

EllenS

  • Member
  • Posts: 4312
  • I write whimsical vintage mysteries.
    • My Author Page:
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2016, 11:29:50 AM »
I would emphasize that there is no objective measure of "fair" when it comes to perceived effort. There's what you can do, and what you are willing to do, and those are going to vary from person to person, and goal to goal.

The amount of relative effort and permanent physical damage my dh and I put into childbearing was in no way "fair," but I certainly thought it was worth it!

However, when it came to me putting my creative work on hold to finance his projects? There was a definite time limit.

OP, one thing that stands out to me is that your partner resists planning. We had to work through that issue as well, and it's not an easy one. My dh hates doing budgets and specific plans, because 1) his brain really does work differently than mine, and it's mentally more taxing for him to think that way; and 2) it forces him to deal with the gap between his goal and the current reality. That gap is really very painful.

For planners like me, the budgets and lists are tools that help me understand, attack, and reduce that gap. For "go for it" types like my dh, they are confusing, overwhelming shame sessions.

One thing that helps us is that we've made an agreement that if dh wants a say in decisionmaking, he has to participate in planning. If I'm planning on my own, we do the thing my way. If he wants to work on a project with no plan, I don't help. This means I have more leverage over joint undertakings, but he appreciates the difference in our finances  and level of accomplishment since we started this way.

Chez Miriam

  • Member
  • Posts: 402
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2016, 12:18:19 PM »
The situation is impossible to sustain. Right now I work full time, and I'm on call 2 weekends a month doing emergency work. In addition, I care for the goats entirely by myself. So I milk in the morning and milk and feed at night and do feet and such on the weekends. I also do all the cooking and cleaning. And I make cheese.

He works on farm equipment to get it ready for haying and does the haying. He used to maintain the vehicles, but is sticking with a shoulder problem.

This looks like a huge imbalance in the amount of work. Honestly, how much work is haying? Isn't that something that's done once a year?

How much money does the farm actually make?

I would think about having a timeline and then discussing it with him. Something like if the farm doesn't make enough money that you don't have to work other jobs in 2 years (or whatever time frame suits you), we will sell the farm and get regular jobs. Right now the farm looks like a fun hobby to him and an incredibly time-consuming one for you.

If the farm isn't making any money [and he has no active plan that is changing that], it's a "hobby" farm - which is lovely to have, if you can afford it.

When someone is working three jobs to support the hobby of their partner, it feels "off" to me.

Do your goats contribute much financially?  If not, I would be tempted to get out of goats, and just have two jobs for a while, and give yourself somewhat of a break.

Reading your story reminded me of book I read [La Belle Saison, by Patricia Atkinson] where this couple bought a vineyard in France [new trade, new country], and the husband left when it became too hard [I seem to remember he was too ill to continue (but not to haul "donkey" back to the UK & find a new girlfriend ::)), but I could be wrong].  She made a success in the end, probably because she was no longer lugging dead wood as well as trying to build up a business.

I think some professional help [farming planning/relationship counselling] would be the best way to go...

{{{Hugs}}}, Rashea.  Please value your health.
"All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well."  - Julian of Norwich

TootsNYC

  • Member
  • Posts: 34388
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2016, 12:36:25 PM »

OP, one thing that stands out to me is that your partner resists planning. We had to work through that issue as well, and it's not an easy one. My dh hates doing budgets and specific plans, because 1) his brain really does work differently than mine, and it's mentally more taxing for him to think that way; and 2) it forces him to deal with the gap between his goal and the current reality. That gap is really very painful.

For planners like me, the budgets and lists are tools that help me understand, attack, and reduce that gap. For "go for it" types like my dh, they are confusing, overwhelming shame sessions.

One thing that helps us is that we've made an agreement that if dh wants a say in decisionmaking, he has to participate in planning. If I'm planning on my own, we do the thing my way. If he wants to work on a project with no plan, I don't help. This means I have more leverage over joint undertakings, but he appreciates the difference in our finances  and level of accomplishment since we started this way.

I'm not the OP, but this is really helpful to me!

rashea

  • Member
  • Posts: 9770
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2016, 04:19:28 PM »
One thing that helps us is that we've made an agreement that if dh wants a say in decisionmaking, he has to participate in planning. If I'm planning on my own, we do the thing my way. If he wants to work on a project with no plan, I don't help. This means I have more leverage over joint undertakings, but he appreciates the difference in our finances  and level of accomplishment since we started this way.
This is so true, thank you. I think the issue is that I jump in to help with things to keep him from losing his cool, and I'm doing it to the detriment of my health and sanity. So I need to find a way to let him fail at something without stepping in, and he needs to step it up. I'm really at the point of getting rid of the animals and letting him take a few months to see if he can get things to a reasonable point. If not, then either we need to move on and he'll need to get a job, or I need to move on.
"Manners change, principles don't. It's about treating people with consideration, respect and honesty." Peter Post

Vermont

greencat

  • Member
  • Posts: 4144
  • Trap...Neuter...What was that third thing again?
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2016, 07:33:16 PM »
One thing that helps us is that we've made an agreement that if dh wants a say in decisionmaking, he has to participate in planning. If I'm planning on my own, we do the thing my way. If he wants to work on a project with no plan, I don't help. This means I have more leverage over joint undertakings, but he appreciates the difference in our finances  and level of accomplishment since we started this way.
This is so true, thank you. I think the issue is that I jump in to help with things to keep him from losing his cool, and I'm doing it to the detriment of my health and sanity. So I need to find a way to let him fail at something without stepping in, and he needs to step it up. I'm really at the point of getting rid of the animals and letting him take a few months to see if he can get things to a reasonable point. If not, then either we need to move on and he'll need to get a job, or I need to move on.

If you share a bank account, separate your finances from his.

Request that he start taking care of the goats starting immediately, or you will be finding a new home for them next week.  If for some reason he absolutely cannot take care of the goats, sell them immediately, and present it as a done deal.  You get to make unilateral decisions about continuing to do tasks that fall entirely on you.

Lay out all the expenses of the farm, and then all the money-making opportunities the farm has.  Consider that a shoulder injury may temporarily or permanently prevent Emory from being able to perform the tasks required to make the farm a success, or some extra equipment might be needed to accommodate the injury, which of course would be another added expense.   

Consider if you want to continue to support the farm based on that data.

If you do want to continue forward with the farm, you might want to look into a loan aimed at small farmers.  It sounds like a cash infusion might resolve a lot of the stress and enable the farm to become productive at some later date.

DavidH

  • Member
  • Posts: 2149
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2016, 10:22:34 AM »
Everyone's budget is different, but to put in a months plus of work to earn $2000 seems like a rather low salary if you work it out per hour.  If you also count expenses, did the equipment prep require parts, does haying use fuel, then the hourly rate will be much lower.

Are you raising goats to earn money, if so, how much does it pay, is it profitable or not?  If it's a hobby, do you wish to continue it?  It's these types of questions that you need to ask and have answers to.

You may want to sit down and plan out your time and his.  See how both of you are spending time and see if you can find a better allocation of responsibilities.  For example, when you say it took him a month to prep equipment, is that all he did?  Did  it really take him 40+ hours per week for 4 weeks?  What else has be done during that time?  How much time do you spend at work in a week?  What about commuting, taking care of the goats, etc.  By writing it down, you will both be able to see if this is an equitable split and you will also be able to see if it makes sense financially. 

For many things, you can either do it yourself or pay someone.  Often a professional can do it faster and better than one can on ones own.  For example, I could paint my house, but by the time I buy the equipment, pain, and do it, it's makes more sense for me to work and pay someone to paint it.  To this end, should he pay someone to fix equipment while he does something else or does it really make sense for him to do it himself? 

AmethystAnne

  • mom, grandmother, and an enthusaistic knitter & crocheter
  • Member
  • Posts: 4238
  • So much yarn, not nearly enough time! :D
Re: Who wants to play judge?
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 11:37:02 AM »
{{{{rashea}}}}

My mother was born on the family farm. Her parents and their parents, etc were farmers. MiddleDSonIL is a full time farmer in partnership with his brother. They are busy all the time. They started small. As they prospered, they expanded their equipment and diversified. They grow soybeans and corn (sold to eventually go into gasoline). They do custom combining for others for pay. When it rains, they do repairs and maintenance on the equipment.

They only do unpaid favors for their father.

From what I've observed, a farmer doesn't have to go to Las Vegas to gamble. That is their way of life.