Author Topic: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?  (Read 6838 times)

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Surianne

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #120 on: October 22, 2014, 04:17:12 PM »
There is a huge difference between 'Oh, by the way, I was engaged when I was 25 and I/he broke it off before the wedding' and 'Ex and I used to love doing X.  He taught me A, B and C and I really miss doing X.'

I would want to know the first, not the second.  And I would consider it lying by omission if it was never brought up.  How I would respond would depend on how much time had passed.  More than 5 years, I'd get over it.  Within the last 5 years?  What else is he hiding?  Especially if it came out that stories he'd told about doing stuff with 'friend(s)' turns out to be stuff he did with his ex.

I may be coloured by the the fact that I don't really have a past to tell.  I dated a couple of guys seriously but it was a very long time ago and they were never in the circle of friends I have now.  So it would never come up, really.  But if I'd been engaged to one of those guys?  I think it would be dishonest not to tell my current (hypothetical) partner, even if he didn't directly ask me about it.  It'd get a 'I was young and dumb and got my bad boy phase over with early'.

This is the type of opinion I'm disagreeing with.  I absolutely don't think it's a lie of omission to not bring up a past relationship, and I would be quite offended and hurt to be characterized as lying.  If I were asked, sure, I'd be honest and say I'd been engaged before.  But I'm not lying if I don't bring up past relationships (engagements or otherwise). 

Nothing against you personally, Outdoor Girl, and I know you're not calling me a liar or anything like that.  Your post was just an easy one to quote as an example of where I feel the opposite way  :)

Two Ravens

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #121 on: October 22, 2014, 06:42:29 PM »
There is a huge difference between 'Oh, by the way, I was engaged when I was 25 and I/he broke it off before the wedding' and 'Ex and I used to love doing X.  He taught me A, B and C and I really miss doing X.'

I would want to know the first, not the second.  And I would consider it lying by omission if it was never brought up.  How I would respond would depend on how much time had passed.  More than 5 years, I'd get over it.  Within the last 5 years?  What else is he hiding?  Especially if it came out that stories he'd told about doing stuff with 'friend(s)' turns out to be stuff he did with his ex.

I may be coloured by the the fact that I don't really have a past to tell.  I dated a couple of guys seriously but it was a very long time ago and they were never in the circle of friends I have now.  So it would never come up, really.  But if I'd been engaged to one of those guys?  I think it would be dishonest not to tell my current (hypothetical) partner, even if he didn't directly ask me about it.  It'd get a 'I was young and dumb and got my bad boy phase over with early'.

This is the type of opinion I'm disagreeing with.  I absolutely don't think it's a lie of omission to not bring up a past relationship, and I would be quite offended and hurt to be characterized as lying.  If I were asked, sure, I'd be honest and say I'd been engaged before.  But I'm not lying if I don't bring up past relationships (engagements or otherwise). 

Nothing against you personally, Outdoor Girl, and I know you're not calling me a liar or anything like that.  Your post was just an easy one to quote as an example of where I feel the opposite way  :)

I don't know. I keep thinking back on a situation a friend had.

Her boyfriend would often regal us with stories about his time at X Beach. One day she asked, "Why did you always go to X Beach? Did you never want to try out Y Beach or go to Z instead?"

He went off on how he just liked X Beach, so that's why they went there.

It later came out that the reason they went to X Beach so much is because his ex-GF's aunt owned a condo there, so they had a free place to stay.

Friend was rather annoyed BF didn't just say that in the first place, rather than waxing poetic about X Beach (Which was somewhat inferior to Y Beach and Z). She felt deceived.

Surianne

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #122 on: October 22, 2014, 06:59:19 PM »
Huh.  That makes zero sense to me.  Why did she feel deceived?  Do you mean he didn't like X beach at all, but was lying and saying he did?  Or he did like X beach, but didn't explain all the reasons why?   I'm lost on that one and why it would be considered deceptive. 

miranova

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #123 on: October 22, 2014, 07:03:12 PM »
There is a huge difference between 'Oh, by the way, I was engaged when I was 25 and I/he broke it off before the wedding' and 'Ex and I used to love doing X.  He taught me A, B and C and I really miss doing X.'

I would want to know the first, not the second.  And I would consider it lying by omission if it was never brought up.  How I would respond would depend on how much time had passed.  More than 5 years, I'd get over it.  Within the last 5 years?  What else is he hiding?  Especially if it came out that stories he'd told about doing stuff with 'friend(s)' turns out to be stuff he did with his ex.

I may be coloured by the the fact that I don't really have a past to tell.  I dated a couple of guys seriously but it was a very long time ago and they were never in the circle of friends I have now.  So it would never come up, really.  But if I'd been engaged to one of those guys?  I think it would be dishonest not to tell my current (hypothetical) partner, even if he didn't directly ask me about it.  It'd get a 'I was young and dumb and got my bad boy phase over with early'.

This is the type of opinion I'm disagreeing with.  I absolutely don't think it's a lie of omission to not bring up a past relationship, and I would be quite offended and hurt to be characterized as lying.  If I were asked, sure, I'd be honest and say I'd been engaged before.  But I'm not lying if I don't bring up past relationships (engagements or otherwise). 

Nothing against you personally, Outdoor Girl, and I know you're not calling me a liar or anything like that.  Your post was just an easy one to quote as an example of where I feel the opposite way  :)

In my mind "not mentioning"="omitting".  Isn't that what lie of omission means?  That you simply "don't mention" something that the other person probably wants to know and deserves to know?  That's how I've always understood the phrase. 

Again, I'm not calling you a liar.  If you have no intention to deceive, you aren't lying.  But I'm just trying to understand if we are using the phrase in the same way or not.  I don't understand what a better example of a lie by omission would be.

miranova

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #124 on: October 22, 2014, 07:03:53 PM »
Huh.  That makes zero sense to me.  Why did she feel deceived?  Do you mean he didn't like X beach at all, but was lying and saying he did?  Or he did like X beach, but didn't explain all the reasons why?   I'm lost on that one and why it would be considered deceptive.

Because she flat out asked a question that he gave a false/untrue answer to?

Two Ravens

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #125 on: October 22, 2014, 07:07:47 PM »
Huh.  That makes zero sense to me.  Why did she feel deceived?  Do you mean he didn't like X beach at all, but was lying and saying he did?  Or he did like X beach, but didn't explain all the reasons why?   I'm lost on that one and why it would be considered deceptive.

Because she flat out asked a question that he gave a false/untrue answer to?

Bingo!

The only reason they always when to X Beach is that they had a free place to crash there. There were verbal acrobatics just to avoid mentioning Ex-GF's name.

Surianne

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #126 on: October 22, 2014, 07:14:00 PM »
Hah, I clearly don't understand this at all!  None of these examples would be lying to me.  Thank you for trying to explain it, though  :)

DavidH

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #127 on: Yesterday at 04:50:36 AM »
First, I think there is a grey area between Turtle Dove's "never mention" an ex and always.  Some stories involve both the event and the people there and are worth telling.  I'm not sure why the grey area is so hard to explain.

The beach story is a perfect example.  Another could be going somewhere on vacation and you comment that you know a great place for breakfast.  A reasonable question or comment would be around why you're so familiar with the place.  Answer, I used to go there all the time.  Question, why X city.  Oh I just liked it vs. an ex of mine had an apartment there.  I don't see anything wrong with either answer, and wouldn't classify the latter as disrespectful to the person I'm currently dating.

Taking the issue of friends bringing up and ex.  Think of playing cards as an example.  Someone comments that they haven't seen a hand that great since you and your ex played one night.  Kind of an innocent story, but the ex got mentioned. I don't see how that is disrespectful to the person you're currently dating either.

Another comment, "In my mind "not mentioning"="omitting".  Isn't that what lie of omission means?  That you simply "don't mention" something that the other person probably wants to know and deserves to know?"   I think the key is that either they need to have asked or it needs to be completely obvious that they should be told.  If you're talking about past relationships for whatever reason, omitting one serious enough to have resulted in an engagement is a lie of omission.  Forgetting the person you went on one date with not so much. 

On the other hand, failing to proactively bring up the fact that you were engaged in the past doesn't always rise to that standard.  It is not obvious that someone needs to know or should be  told and in fact, at least one person on this board would consider that disrespectful.

Another Sarah

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #128 on: Yesterday at 05:41:05 AM »
I think the lie of omission thing isn't quite so black and white, and I'm with Surianne for the most part.

Where it gets tricky is in deciding what is a lie of omission.
Not telling the members of the "blonde hair united" fanclub that I'm a brunette is a lie of omission.
Not telling the members of the "brown hair united" fanclub that I used to be a blonde is not a lie of omission. Why should I assume they care as long as I have brown hair now?

Not mentioning a previous relationship is only a lie of omission if you know your current OH would be bothered by it and there are enough varying opinions on here to demonstrate this isn't a one-size-fits-all question.

in my previous posts I said I would feel weird about not mentioning it if I felt I was going into a serious relationship - but that's me.
My feelings, ergo my responsibility.
Now if I wanted to know about the other person's past, it should be on me to ask, not assume they feel a full-disclosure is necessary, and if I didn't ask, I don't think I'd have any right to call them a liar by omission if they didn't tell me.
If I asked and they lied about it, then they're a liar. If I asked and they deliberately avoided mentioning it, then they're a liar.
But not volunteering the information? That's not the same thing.

TurtleDove

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #129 on: Yesterday at 08:03:37 AM »
First, I think there is a grey area between Turtle Dove's "never mention" an ex and always.  Some stories involve both the event and the people there and are worth telling.  I'm not sure why the grey area is so hard to explain.

The beach story is a perfect example.  Another could be going somewhere on vacation and you comment that you know a great place for breakfast.  A reasonable question or comment would be around why you're so familiar with the place.  Answer, I used to go there all the time.  Question, why X city.  Oh I just liked it vs. an ex of mine had an apartment there.  I don't see anything wrong with either answer, and wouldn't classify the latter as disrespectful to the person I'm currently dating.

Taking the issue of friends bringing up and ex.  Think of playing cards as an example.  Someone comments that they haven't seen a hand that great since you and your ex played one night.  Kind of an innocent story, but the ex got mentioned. I don't see how that is disrespectful to the person you're currently dating either.

Another comment, "In my mind "not mentioning"="omitting".  Isn't that what lie of omission means?  That you simply "don't mention" something that the other person probably wants to know and deserves to know?"   I think the key is that either they need to have asked or it needs to be completely obvious that they should be told.  If you're talking about past relationships for whatever reason, omitting one serious enough to have resulted in an engagement is a lie of omission.  Forgetting the person you went on one date with not so much. 

On the other hand, failing to proactively bring up the fact that you were engaged in the past doesn't always rise to that standard.  It is not obvious that someone needs to know or should be  told and in fact, at least one person on this board would consider that disrespectful.

I did *not* say never mention an ex. Not even close. Please refer to my actual posts.

I agree with Surianne in many respects. I think the difference is that some of us don't find the issue of "but who were you with?" to be "need to know" information. I know I personally would never badger my DH about who he was with or why he went somewhere. Why would that be a value add to my current relationship?



miranova

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #130 on: Yesterday at 08:41:01 AM »
Who said anything about badgering?  It's a natural, innocent question to ask who someone went with on a trip or other outing.  I wouldn't even be assuming it was an ex, maybe it was a friend, a coworker, his parents, etc.  It's not badgering to ask a simple question about the story. 

shhh its me

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Re: Do I need to reveal that I was engaged?
« Reply #131 on: Yesterday at 06:43:29 PM »
Hah, I clearly don't understand this at all!  None of these examples would be lying to me.  Thank you for trying to explain it, though  :)

I would agree that that(Beach a few posts up for everyone else) example would be a be a lie of omission.

for 2 reasons...... in answer to a pretty direct question "Why did you go to beach Y so much" he left out the basic fact "I was already in the area to see GF." and more importantly if the only time he was at beach Y were happy times with his ex. I would feel " you constantly talk about the great times you had with ex." just because someone edits "We had so much fun there , we built sandcastles , we watched the sun set etc. " to "I had fun , I built sandcastles , I watched the sunset" he was still talking about his dates , romantic and best times with ex.