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Author Topic: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80  (Read 7696 times)

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stargazer

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2015, 11:37:50 AM »
Agreed.  She is an adult.  Please do not buy her books on relationships.  If my mom had done that based on an argument with my boyfriend, I would have wondered why she was so invested and weirded out.

NFPwife

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2015, 03:07:34 PM »
I think saying he never apologized is missing the part that he left the theater to come over and join her. Likely he saw this as a miscommunication.  Once he realized she wasn't coming to the theater, he left to come and either bring her to the theater or to stay and watch the game with her.  When she said she was already in her pajamas and didn't want to go to the theater, but invited him in to watch the game, he likely thought everything would be fine.  If someone invites you in, only to pout and be sullen, then they actually do need to get over it.

If you're upset, then use words and say I'm hurt, I can't believe you didn't apologize, or something along those lines.  If at that point he apologizes, then accept it and move on.  If he doesn't, then you are free to be annoyed or upset.  Sitting and pouting is 100% unproductive and is never going to get anyone to a resolution.

The bolded is my point. To me, that's not an apology. An apology, in my mind, has to include the person acknowledging that what they did was wrong. (An "I'm sorry you were upset" is, literally, maddening. It only makes me angrier.) I also like a verbal assurance that they person will not do this again and if it comes with a plan for what will be done differently next time, then it's the perfect trifecta.

So, if BFBob were truly apologizing to me he'd say, "I'm sorry I went to the theater with my friends. I should have stuck with the current plan unless and until we communicated directly. If anything like this happens again, I'll stick to the plan." That, to me, would have been an apology. I can see where coming over is a nice gesture and, for some, an apology, but for me (and I'll hazard a guess, many) it's not an apology.

I agree.

In my experience, there are some people who think that their actions constitute an apology, and others who need to hear the actual words "I'm sorry."

That - in a nutshell - is what The Five Languages of Apology by Gary Chapman and Jennifer Thomas is all about :)

(Gary Chapman has also written another book called "The Five Love Languages" which is also really brilliant, but covers a different topic.)

Agree! I recommended that book upthread.

I'll agree with the posters who say you can't insert yourself into her relationship. If she talks to you about it, you can say, "I heard of an interesting book you might want to check out.

For resources, again, if she's asking, anything by John Gottman is great. He has some good YouTube videos as well.


Lynn2000

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2015, 03:37:17 PM »
On the topic of giving DD advice--obviously if she asks, sure. Or if she's talking about it, one could say, "Are you looking for advice?" and then proceed only if she says yes.

I learned about the Love Languages here, and it just really blew my mind as I had never considered anything like it before, and it really helped me. So if the OP discovers an overall concept she feels the same way about, she could probably find a way to introduce it into conversation, without specifically referencing the issue with Bob. Like, "I read this really interesting book the other day, and it really helped me in dealing with Aunt Sophie." Even if the last part is not strictly true. Of course, the "issue with Aunt Sophie" can't be something like, "It seemed like she stood me up for watching a movie then she came over later but I was still mad..." That's a little too obvious. And if DD didn't seem interested in the conversation I wouldn't go into it very far anyway, because personally I find a lot of self-help stuff pretty dull--amazing when it pertains to you, boring and even confusing when it doesn't.
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wolfie

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2015, 04:14:08 PM »

So the only problem I see is the BF invalidating your DD's feelings, and you perhaps doing so a little as well via the unflattering descriptions. Feelings aren't facts and can't be proven/disproven or erased on command. Your DD will need to manage her reactions but BF needs to respect them also.

I did not say "unflattering descriptions" to her. Those descriptions are between you all and me. Yes, I can joke with DD#2 about her being a lump on a log but I sensed that this was not one of those times.


But it was pretty obvious based on the unflattering descriptions that you thought your DD2 was in the wrong and were siding with her BF.

dawbs

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2015, 05:59:43 PM »
Agreed.  She is an adult.  Please do not buy her books on relationships.  If my mom had done that based on an argument with my boyfriend, I would have wondered why she was so invested and weirded out.

I'm going to echo this, but for a different reason than I've seen.

The amount of pressure on relationships can be incredibly overwhelming, especially at that "decide if this is serious/next step of life/sunk time fallacy" type point.  The pressure mounts astronomically when it seems as if other people who are important in our lives (parents, friends, siblings) have a vested interest in the success or failure of a relationship.
I probably didn't give a relationship in my past enough of a chance because of some of that, and it fizzled out.  There's another that I should have ended sooner, but I didn't because there was no good, gentle, non hurtful way to end something.

Sure, give advice, when asked.  Recommend books, if asked. But take off pressure, leave it so she can buy or not buy them herself.

jpcher

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64, #80
« Reply #80 on: June 10, 2015, 06:19:45 PM »
Your daughter is 21. I would stay out of her relationship unless she specifically asks you for help on this particular issue. I love my mom, and am very glad to have her available for advice when I need it, but if my mom had witnessed a small spat between me and my boyfriend at 21 and decided to get me several books to teach me about relationships... I would be hurt and angry and feel condescended to.


Oh, I completely agree. My mother used to say "You look depressed, here read this book. It will help." I would just roll my eyes and put the book aside.

I would not give her the book because of this one single incident. A few times in the past, I've given both DDs inspirational/self-help type books (e.g., Chicken Soup) for their bdays or at xmas. And we have had good conversations come from them.

So I would absolutely not say "Oh. You had an argument with your BF. Here read this book. It will help."  ::)

In fact, DD#1 is planning on moving in with her BFsam come August. They are looking for an apt. together. I was thinking of looking for a book of that type to include in their housewarming package . . . but maybe that's not such a good idea? :-\




So the only problem I see is the BF invalidating your DD's feelings, and you perhaps doing so a little as well via the unflattering descriptions. Feelings aren't facts and can't be proven/disproven or erased on command. Your DD will need to manage her reactions but BF needs to respect them also.

I did not say "unflattering descriptions" to her. Those descriptions are between you all and me. Yes, I can joke with DD#2 about her being a lump on a log but I sensed that this was not one of those times.


But it was pretty obvious based on the unflattering descriptions that you thought your DD2 was in the wrong and were siding with her BF.

Yes I did. Because I honestly thought that DD#2 should have cheered up and accepted BFbobs "apology" of giving up the game at the theater and opting to enjoy it with her instead. At the same time I thought BFbob was wrong for not sticking to the original plans, especially going to the theater without her while knowing full well that it was first come first served and they all thought the theater would be sold out. But I thought that BFbob coming over negated his initial rudeness.

Color me wrong! ;D


UPDATE:

DD#2 and BFbob spent the day in the city yesterday visiting his brother. DD#2 said "I had a wonderful time. It was a great day to spend outside."

BFbob is coming over to watch the game tonight, but he'll be here later . . . after the game starts . . . due to his work schedule.  ;D





I am very glad that I posted this question. Now, if asked, I do have some answers that I didn't have before.

 ;D




(dawbs -- you posted while I was typing.)

Winterlight

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80
« Reply #81 on: June 10, 2015, 07:05:12 PM »
I think the healthiest thing you can do here is stay out of it. And consider your tone towards her- "pouty" and "bump on a log" connote a certain attitude on your part and I'm guessing that's coming through to her. (You might not have said them, but I'll bet the feelings show.)
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cross_patch

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80
« Reply #82 on: June 10, 2015, 07:30:08 PM »
I think the healthiest thing you can do here is stay out of it. And consider your tone towards her- "pouty" and "bump on a log" connote a certain attitude on your part and I'm guessing that's coming through to her. (You might not have said them, but I'll bet the feelings show.)

Yep, this.

And don't give either of them any books - it seems like you still aren't seeing how that's meddling and interfering in their relationships. Just because you think you've seen this before from dd2 as opposed to one time still doesn't give you the right to get involved in her relationship. She's an adult! I don't see how it could be taken as anything other than a criticism.

TurtleDove

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80
« Reply #83 on: June 10, 2015, 08:36:22 PM »
I think the healthiest thing you can do here is stay out of it. And consider your tone towards her- "pouty" and "bump on a log" connote a certain attitude on your part and I'm guessing that's coming through to her. (You might not have said them, but I'll bet the feelings show.)
I think that if the OP thinks her DD acted inappropriately it is okay for her to make that known, especially if DD lives in OP's house. I agree with staying out of the relationship in general, but it seems DD brought OP into it by her behavior.

Daffydilly

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2015, 10:48:19 AM »
One thing you could do is buy the book and toss it next to the loo. My husband and I do that with lots of books we are interested in. I can read a bit as nature calls and talk about the topic with him later. It's one trick for having conversations that aren't always about the kids. And it's up to us each if we want to open a book. The Uncle Johns readers, history books and many more have taken turns on the shelf in our bathrooms. So it's an idea for introducing The Five Languages of an Apology along with some others you'd like to read for yourself.

miranova

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80
« Reply #85 on: June 14, 2015, 01:24:08 PM »
Interesting update.  I too think the "get over it" line changes everything.  That's like pouring gas on a flame.

I agree very much with others who said this is less about the original miscommunication and more about learning how to "fight fair".  That is just such an incredibly dismissive and hurtful thing to say to someone. 

I also don't see Bob coming back as an "apology".  Following through with the original plan that he committed to of his own free will does not give him bonus points.  He followed through on a commitment, and that's good, it means he's not a jerk, but it's also what I would expect from any mature adult.  It's not an apology.  An apology can take many forms, but "I'm here now, get over it" isn't one of them.

And I'm not saying he necessarily needed to apologize either.  I'm just saying that coming back isn't a contrite action, it's what they agreed to in the first place.

johelenc1

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80
« Reply #86 on: June 21, 2015, 01:01:05 AM »
#1 - Your daughter is an adult.  She should decide whether or not she has her phone with her or not.  Granted she shouldn't be playing with it/checking it every single second, but checking a text shouldn't be a big deal.

#2 - Honestly, I think your daughter blew this entirely out of proportion.  This is just entirely my opinion based on how I deal with things.  If my boyfriend/husband had been able to make the theatre to see "the big game" that he loved so much - I would have been thrilled for him.  After all, isn't that what I was trying to accomplish for him anyway?  Your daughter was trying to make the evening happen not because she loved the game, but because she was trying to be a good sport and be supportive.  I'm surprised she wasn't thrilled she didn't have to watch the game after all.  I would probably have been happy to half-way watch the game while doodling on my computer in my comfy pjs. 

I think it was incredibly thoughtful for Bob to leave the theatre and come to get your daughter to join him.  I'm pretty shocked actually.  For a huge fan, that's a pretty big deal.   If she wasn't going to get dressed and go back with him, she should have released him to return to the theatre and enjoy his game OR been better company if he stayed.

This is just what I would have done, but I am incredibly not needy and fairly easy to adjust to changes in plans.  If it was for something I wasn't interested in in the first place, this definitely wouldn't bother me.  Now, if I cared about the sport or it was a mutual hobby and I WANTED to be at the theatre, I might have reacted differently.  (Although, I would have just gotten up and gone with him when he came home:-)).



Lynn2000

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80
« Reply #87 on: June 21, 2015, 10:10:18 AM »
I do think DD's enthusiasm for the game should be factored in. Obviously Bob is super into the game, but it's hard for me to tell from the descriptions how interested DD really was. Given Bob's level of enthusiasm and the fact that it was a championship game, I personally would have told myself, "This is not about me and Boyfriend getting together; this is about Boyfriend watching the game." Of course I don't really like sports at all. So a situation that resulted in Boyfriend being able to watch the game in a special, preferred way--even last minute, disrupting other plans we might've had--I think I would try to be a good sport about that, because watching the game was the main purpose of the event. I personally would even have been relieved that I was released from my "duty" of watching the game, and could do something else for the evening! I would assure him (via text) that we were cool, no need for him to feel bad, enjoy the game at the theater. In fact, please don't come over, because now I have to at least half-watch the game, and I can't read when the TV is on and would feel like I needed to be sitting in the same room the whole time, so it would actually be less fun for both of us.

But, there's a lot of factors to be considered. If I was trying to make watching the game at my place special, and had ordered/prepared food and decorations, okay then I'd be a bit more peeved that the plans changed. But, adding those extras would have been my choice and I think I would just have to, well, get over it, rather than blaming Boyfriend. I hope that if he knew of my extra planning, he would take that into account, though, and at least acknowledge that and apologize before going to the theater.

If it was something we were both really interested in, honestly I would probably be like, "There's seats left? Put a coat in one for me, I'm running over!" Because I would probably feel like seeing the game on the big screen was preferable for me as well. I think the toughest situation would be if it was 60% his interest, 40% mine--then I would probably really feel like I'd been ditched for a better offer, like my feelings about the game weren't worth thinking about at all because they didn't reach the same level of passion as his. And maybe that's the situation DD was in. As I said earlier, though, I think she should have cheerfully sent him back to the theater if she possibly could, faking good cheer for 60 seconds or whatever; if she could have predicted that she would be in a funk the rest of the evening that would just make them both miserable, it would be more mature and better for the relationship to short-circuit that. And then later they could still talk about what happened and how to prevent it in the future.
~Lynn2000

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Re: Was she stood up? AKA: Who was rude? OP #38, #64. #80
« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2015, 05:30:50 PM »
Most importantly, what team was he rooting for?


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