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  • August 26, 2016, 04:10:17 AM

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Author Topic: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette  (Read 4215 times)

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TootsNYC

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2016, 06:10:25 PM »
. . . I admit my fault in not being more proactive . . .
Do not blame yourself for this fiasco.  The guy was far beyond rude and well into jerk territory.

Early in life I learned that no one will value you more than you value yourself.  If you put a cheap price tag on yourself, that's how much you'll get. You will get respect only if you refuse to be disrespected.  If you reward jerks, your life will be filled with jerks.

It makes me apprehensive that you haven't stated that you will not be "dating" the jerk again.  You deserve better.

I truly don't know how you could possible have been more proactive!!!

I think that was the problem. I think this guy changed his mine and didn't have the guts to say so. But you were in "proactive" and "commitment on my calendar" mode, so you tricked yourself out of saying, "Look, dude--if you can't be bothered to give me your actual address, I'm going home."

Maria16

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2016, 09:41:37 AM »
I'm sorry but this was not a date. I made several assumptions like this too when I started dating for the first time in my 30s after a 13 year relationship ended.  A date is a set time and place that is mutually convenient. As soon as you felt unclear about the time when finishing work, it would've been best to return home and make your own plans or turn in early.

I get the sense that you showed up at his house uninvited, since you didn't know the address.  Is it possible the poster was the rude one here, disregarding several social qs, perhaps too subtly prevented.  A conversation to meet at someone's home (bad idea, but ok) would go..."Yes, I will come over.  Where do you live?" Then "I live at so and so address...."  Followed by additional helpful landmark info and instructions for arrival, like- my doorman will ring me or call from outside and I will buzz you or I will come down and bring you in. If the guy was even looking for something casual, he would do this and of course bring the Parking Pass in case he found her attractive so he could try for more and give it to her for the car. If he doesn't, then he has the automatic, you car is about to be towed excuse.

He didn't provide an address and it seems she drove to a nearby intersection gleaned from prior disclosures and said I'm nearby and then showed up. He may have been very freaked out and not known how to handle it.

It was an invited/agreed upon event.  I appreciate your thoughts on "stalkery," as it most certainly happens out there in the world, but most definately not in this situation, but there wasn't this suggestion of maybe getting together, and I just hit the road and showed up.  No.  It was planned.  I admit my fault in not being more proactive, but there was active discussion on getting together on Friday night, just a whole lot of flaws in carrying it out.

I didn't say you were a stalker. However, I do think you were too proactive. An agreed upon date should be simpler to plan. If you feel like you need to push too much, then it is probably best to step back.

Maria16

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2016, 09:45:57 AM »
To me, it seems that every step of the way (once plans were being made), he was trying to discourage meeting, short of coming right out and saying, "I don't want to meet up with you after all."
I agree with this. While a clear no would've been simpler, people should be allowed to rely on social norms to express disinterest. Most folks don't feel comfortable hurting someone's feelings so it is important to recognize the pushback. A 1st date should be easy and fun.

Twik

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2016, 12:50:30 PM »
Well, I don't agree that one is expected to recognize that a request to get together is actually a "stay away" notice. If you say, "Let's meet up," you can hardly blame someone for assuming that's what you want to do, even if you start to put barriers in place that at the beginning have the appearance of plausibility.

"Can you read my mind?" is not a polite game to play.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Peppergirl

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2016, 01:13:00 PM »
To me, it seems that every step of the way (once plans were being made), he was trying to discourage meeting, short of coming right out and saying, "I don't want to meet up with you after all."
I agree with this. While a clear no would've been simpler, people should be allowed to rely on social norms to express disinterest. Most folks don't feel comfortable hurting someone's feelings so it is important to recognize the pushback. A 1st date should be easy and fun.

I absolutely could not disagree with this more.  I agree that a first date should be easy and fun, but this does not absolve him of basic etiquette or common courtesy. Heck, even if it was a 'hook up' (and forgive me OP - I'm absolutely not assuming that's the case, nor is it my business), he should be required to use his words if he's no longer interested.

'Societal norms to express disinterest' is a slippery slope, and certainly not what happened here - IMO. 

Maria16

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2016, 05:14:53 PM »
To me, it seems that every step of the way (once plans were being made), he was trying to discourage meeting, short of coming right out and saying, "I don't want to meet up with you after all."
I agree with this. While a clear no would've been simpler, people should be allowed to rely on social norms to express disinterest. Most folks don't feel comfortable hurting someone's feelings so it is important to recognize the pushback. A 1st date should be easy and fun.

I absolutely could not disagree with this more.  I agree that a first date should be easy and fun, but this does not absolve him of basic etiquette or common courtesy. Heck, even if it was a 'hook up' (and forgive me OP - I'm absolutely not assuming that's the case, nor is it my business), he should be required to use his words if he's no longer interested.

'Societal norms to express disinterest' is a slippery slope, and certainly not what happened here - IMO.

I agree with you but not everyone has the maturity and manners to handle these things, another red flag.  If it's the day of the date and the guy hasn't confirmed a place and time, he doesn't want to meet. He didn't provide his address for her to come over. She would have spared herself the humiliation had she not forced the meeting. I agree, he's rude.

m2kbug

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #66 on: August 22, 2016, 08:43:04 PM »
Thank you everyone.  I can't get over how wishy-washy I sounded.  What's interesting to me in the land of d@ting is how difficult it has been to nail down times and get-togethers.  I have had a couple of men tell me they fully didn't expect a plan to play out, and when I text and say, "I'm on my way," they're rushing to get changed and get out there.  I have been stood up, and I have tried to make plans when they bail last minute, or they simply won't commit.  I had one tell me, he's really stopped trying.  He waits for the woman he is communicating with to ask him and be fully committed to meeting, as he's tired of all the dancing around and wishy-washy commitment and inability to actually show up, if not just find a day and time, when he asks. 

It's just bizarre.  Why get on a site to date when you don't have the time to date?  There are other issues like fraud or money-digging, other bad things, that you have to spend some time vetting people out, but wow, I can't get over some of the crap. :)

It didn't occur to me that he may have been "hinting" he really wasn't into it.  I really don't think that's the case, but rather more in a "me" phase, and he complained about similar scenarios above, so he's just basically seeing what happens.  Of course once plans were in full swing, he could have done more.  I think "booty call" would probably be more accurate.  There's another "issue" that popped up with him, that is a bit of a deal breaker for me.  We have been in a bit of communication following that bad d@te, and I said, "If you don't want to do "this," we probably shouldn't do "that," either, so let's just meet after work one day or go see a movie."  It's been silence for a few days.  Booty call.  His profile states he is interested in something serious and long-term, but I'm thinking booty call. :)

Thanks for setting me straight.  Sometimes we make excuses for people because we just can't see the forest for the trees or blame ourselves as being unreasonable.   

Lula

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2016, 04:09:10 AM »
Thank you everyone.  I can't get over how wishy-washy I sounded.  What's interesting to me in the land of d@ting is how difficult it has been to nail down times and get-togethers.  I have had a couple of men tell me they fully didn't expect a plan to play out, and when I text and say, "I'm on my way," they're rushing to get changed and get out there.  I have been stood up, and I have tried to make plans when they bail last minute, or they simply won't commit.  I had one tell me, he's really stopped trying.  He waits for the woman he is communicating with to ask him and be fully committed to meeting, as he's tired of all the dancing around and wishy-washy commitment and inability to actually show up, if not just find a day and time, when he asks. 

It's just bizarre.  Why get on a site to date when you don't have the time to date?  There are other issues like fraud or money-digging, other bad things, that you have to spend some time vetting people out, but wow, I can't get over some of the crap. :)

It didn't occur to me that he may have been "hinting" he really wasn't into it.  I really don't think that's the case, but rather more in a "me" phase, and he complained about similar scenarios above, so he's just basically seeing what happens.  Of course once plans were in full swing, he could have done more.  I think "booty call" would probably be more accurate.  There's another "issue" that popped up with him, that is a bit of a deal breaker for me.  We have been in a bit of communication following that bad d@te, and I said, "If you don't want to do "this," we probably shouldn't do "that," either, so let's just meet after work one day or go see a movie."  It's been silence for a few days.  Booty call.  His profile states he is interested in something serious and long-term, but I'm thinking booty call. :)

Thanks for setting me straight.  Sometimes we make excuses for people because we just can't see the forest for the trees or blame ourselves as being unreasonable.

My takeaway from this thread and from m2kbug's experiences and insights: the way a person handles establishing, communicating, and following through on plans for the first date reveals much, much more about that person than anything he or she might actually say to you on the first date.

Harriet Jones

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2016, 06:57:27 AM »
Even if he was just wanting a 'booty call', he wasn't putting enough effort into it, IMO.   

TurtleDove

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2016, 07:20:07 AM »
Sorry you are experiencing this, OP. If it were me, I would ask myself whether I want to be with someone who cannot commit to a solid plan for a date. I wouldn't waste time on someone who is flaky from the beginning. From what you have shared I think you are giving your dates far more credit than they deserve. You deserve better than someone who is a flake only minimally interested in a booty call (and not specifically interested in *you*). Wait for someone who shows interest in *you* and don't miss that person because you are wasting time with people who don't actually have a future with you.

Morticia

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2016, 08:43:10 AM »
Even if he was just wanting a 'booty call', he wasn't putting enough effort into it, IMO.

POD.
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Peppergirl

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Re: Dat-ing expectations, chivalry, dat-ing etiquette
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2016, 12:30:19 PM »
Even if he was just wanting a 'booty call', he wasn't putting enough effort into it, IMO.

Exactly.  There is even an etiquette to *that*, if we're being real here.  Nothing at all wrong with a BC if both parties are on board and know where they stand, but basic courtesy and respect should always apply - regardless of the type of d@ting it happens to be.