Is it not okay to talk about our possible future together? Long post!

[MissKoreanna]

I also want to say that I'm sorry that you're in this situation as well.  It's frustrating and confusing and you're often left hurt because of the non communication.  If you have any questions/need an ear to vent about things, PM me.  I'm more than happy/willing to talk to you about this - it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart as I went through a very similar situation recently.

[Dorrie78]

Much of what I think has already been said. It isn't just okay to talk about the future, it is a necessity at this point. His wanting to buy a house with a friends is a HUGE red flag to you. But I also think that you should absolutely NOT buy a house with him right now either. I know plenty of couples who buy property together who are not married, but they are both 100% committed to the relationship and also older couples who have plenty of life experience.  I really don't think it is a good idea if there is any concern about the long term future - and that way your BF is talking, I would be concerned about the long term.

And in addition, while I can understand why your BF might view a child as an unpleasant obligation based on what he has seen his friends do, that is another red flag. If you know, for sure, that you definitely want kids, please be very cautious when your BF says that he doesn't think he wants kids. You are bargaining with him in the hopes and assumption that he will change his mind. What happens in 10 years when he still hasn't changed his mind?

[567Kate]

For what it's worth, my husband was never afraid of discussing our future together. It was four years until he proposed, but there wasn't a doubt in my mind that he wouldn't propose someday.

If he won't even talk about the future, he's probably not willing to give you a long-term commitment. Maybe he'll be there someday, but maybe he won't. You need to decide what you want from him, and whether he can give it to you.

Good luck. I imagine you have some hard decisions ahead.

[Merry Mrs Martin]

   nothing about etiquette here......

  It's rude to talk about your future even on a first date , it may send your dating running in the opssite direction but it not rude KWIM?
I think your asking is it normal , yes it's within the range of normal to want to discuss marriage and children after dating a few years.

  I think your BF is giving very clear signals he does not want to talk about it yet or at least not in a daydreamy way. (and I might find that annoying to if it was frequent enough , actually let me amend almost everyone would find it annoying if done enough) It sound like you see your relationship as not engaged but just because of the small technicality that neither of you proposed yet. He see is this is my girlfriend NOT my fiance and that this is a clear distinction to him.

His money issues are noneya at this time , you have ever right to question and be sure a person is financially stable before you agree or consider marring them , but right now you are interviewing him for a job he hasn't applied for.

I think you can ask him directly what his intentions are and that he should be able to answer but I would drop the cute references to the "wedding" .  BTW  I don't want kids is a very statement clear statement it does not mean " I don't want kids now I'll probably grow out of it" he may change his mind he may not.

Buying a house with his buddy is a pretty clear statement of "I don't plan on buying a home with you in the foreseeable future".  OK let's say he doesn't think of the future and money very clearly once you ask " how will this home be handled if who or buddy get married in 7 years? have you discussed who will be able to live there and who will move , how much the buy out price will be and how it will be determinded . What will happen if the moving out person can't afford a new home or the staying person can not afford the buy out price etc?" if he just says don't  worry then my personal interpretation of that is you are not really  in his future plans at least as a wife or partner.

[PeasNCues]

My concern is that he is purchasing a house with someone else. To me, this shows that he IS ready for a long-term commitment - just not with you. The fact that he's afraid to even discuss a future with you is another red flag.

You need to have a frank talk with him - whether it ends the relationship or not, you need to know before you spend too long in a relationship that may not be going anywhere.

Good luck.

[sarahj21]

After I asked the hard questions about the house, he seemed to realise that it was a bad idea. He didn't have answers for any of my questions. To be clear, BF is in debt right now. He has to pay it off and save a deposit for a house. He can't do that before Easter so there's no danger of an impulse decision. He has loans from ages ago so there's no way his bank would give him any more money right now!

I agree that it's not fair to judge him on his debt. We have spoken about getting married previously and we agreed that we wouldn't get engaged until we had saved money to buy a house. So we did discuss this, it's just that he doesn't want to talk about the wedding and when it might be.

I never even considered that he just didn't like idle chatter about theoretical events. He loves to talk about how his cat will live with us when we move in together. I have everything for a kitchen plus half a house of furniture here waiting for us to move. Actually he has a few of my kitchen things stored at his place. Last week he bought a new appliance and said it would be great for when we live together. It's just the time frame that's not working for us.

As for kids, well, I'll see what he says when I see him tomorrow. Thanks for the advice everyone!

[bah12]

After I asked the hard questions about the house, he seemed to realise that it was a bad idea. He didn't have answers for any of my questions. To be clear, BF is in debt right now. He has to pay it off and save a deposit for a house. He can't do that before Easter so there's no danger of an impulse decision. He has loans from ages ago so there's no way his bank would give him any more money right now!

I agree that it's not fair to judge him on his debt. We have spoken about getting married previously and we agreed that we wouldn't get engaged until we had saved money to buy a house. So we did discuss this, it's just that he doesn't want to talk about the wedding and when it might be.

I never even considered that he just didn't like idle chatter about theoretical events. He loves to talk about how his cat will live with us when we move in together. I have everything for a kitchen plus half a house of furniture here waiting for us to move. Actually he has a few of my kitchen things stored at his place. Last week he bought a new appliance and said it would be great for when we live together. It's just the time frame that's not working for us.

As for kids, well, I'll see what he says when I see him tomorrow. Thanks for the advice everyone!

It seems that a lot of what he's saying is contradictory.  One hand he tells you that when you two have saved enough money to buy a house, you will get engaged...which I believe is reasonable.  Yet, he's willing to buy a house (and put money down) with his friend?  Even if that isn't going to happen due to his current debt, his actions are saying "I saved money to buy a house and now I'm going to buy one with someone else."  Either pushing your future further down the road or eliminating it all together.

[Merry Mrs Martin]

After I asked the hard questions about the house, he seemed to realise that it was a bad idea. He didn't have answers for any of my questions. To be clear, BF is in debt right now. He has to pay it off and save a deposit for a house. He can't do that before Easter so there's no danger of an impulse decision. He has loans from ages ago so there's no way his bank would give him any more money right now!

I agree that it's not fair to judge him on his debt. We have spoken about getting married previously and we agreed that we wouldn't get engaged until we had saved money to buy a house. So we did discuss this, it's just that he doesn't want to talk about the wedding and when it might be.

I never even considered that he just didn't like idle chatter about theoretical events. He loves to talk about how his cat will live with us when we move in together. I have everything for a kitchen plus half a house of furniture here waiting for us to move. Actually he has a few of my kitchen things stored at his place. Last week he bought a new appliance and said it would be great for when we live together. It's just the time frame that's not working for us.

As for kids, well, I'll see what he says when I see him tomorrow. Thanks for the advice everyone!

The bolded , well that's different he just seems to not like it when you make idle chatter. He can't have his cake and eat it to.

[hobish]

As usual, i am going to be the odd one out here, and say i can see where BF is coming from. You don't say how long a few years is, but you are both just getting out of college? If it were me, and someone i was dating even for a couple of years started saying things like "When we get married..." and hinting at me having their babies, and making comments about rings and on top of it all nosing about my finances ... I would run fast and far.
I've watched a few of my girlfriends (and one guy friend, too, actually) graduate school and immediately go into I want a ring and a house and babies! with you! Look at the sparkly diiiiamond! What color do you think our bridesmaids dresses should be? mode and it's disconcerting to see fro the outside. I can't even imagine being the object of it all. Addressing it head on like you did is a MUCH better way to go about things than making comments like that at birtday parties and in shopping malls. That isn't talking about your future, that's making ((weird and possibly scary)) comments about your future, and there is a difference.

...I ought to mention, though, that Gish and i have been together 10 years, have lived together from the start, bought a house last year, and are thinking maaaybe we'll get married in 2 years or so, and we're both really happy this way. So my words are well salted

[lady_disdain]

As usual, i am going to be the odd one out here, and say i can see where BF is coming from. You don't say how long a few years is, but you are both just getting out of college? If it were me, and someone i was dating even for a couple of years started saying things like "When we get married..." and hinting at me having their babies, and making comments about rings and on top of it all nosing about my finances ... I would run fast and far.
I've watched a few of my girlfriends (and one guy friend, too, actually) graduate school and immediately go into I want a ring and a house and babies! with you! Look at the sparkly diiiiamond! What color do you think our bridesmaids dresses should be? mode and it's disconcerting to see fro the outside. I can't even imagine being the object of it all. Addressing it head on like you did is a MUCH better way to go about things than making comments like that at birtday parties and in shopping malls. That isn't talking about your future, that's making ((weird and possibly scary)) comments about your future, and there is a difference.

...I ought to mention, though, that Gish and i have been together 10 years, have lived together from the start, bought a house last year, and are thinking maaaybe we'll get married in 2 years or so. So my words are well salted

I was thinking the same thing as I was reading the OP. I think your BF is feeling very, very pressured into marriage (his parents, you talk about bridesmaids and buying houses, etc) while having some bad examples dangled in front of him (his friends that were "trapped" by pregnant girlfriends - whether it was this or not, this is what he is hearing). You are both very young and I think he might be feeling that his life is being plotted for him (finish training, pay off debt, buy house, get married, have children, pay their college, curl up and die). Of course, life isn't that simple but it can seem like everyone is busy pushing you to the life they want you to live.

My advice: back way, way off. Sit down and tell him that you don't want to get married any time soon. Tell him that trapping a husband is a lousy, no-good idea since the husband will resent it, etc. Stop telling him you want a baby in 10 years time, at least for a while.

You have given him your advice on the house, now let him make his own decision, right or wrong. Even if you might, some day, marry his financial decisions, you haven't yet and it still his decision alone.

I have a niggling little feeling, however, that you might find that you don't really want to wait that long for marriage and children, even though it seems logical on paper.

[Lady Snowdon]

As usual, i am going to be the odd one out here, and say i can see where BF is coming from. You don't say how long a few years is, but you are both just getting out of college? If it were me, and someone i was dating even for a couple of years started saying things like "When we get married..." and hinting at me having their babies, and making comments about rings and on top of it all nosing about my finances ... I would run fast and far.
I've watched a few of my girlfriends (and one guy friend, too, actually) graduate school and immediately go into I want a ring and a house and babies! with you! Look at the sparkly diiiiamond! What color do you think our bridesmaids dresses should be? mode and it's disconcerting to see fro the outside. I can't even imagine being the object of it all. Addressing it head on like you did is a MUCH better way to go about things than making comments like that at birtday parties and in shopping malls. That isn't talking about your future, that's making ((weird and possibly scary)) comments about your future, and there is a difference.

...I ought to mention, though, that Gish and i have been together 10 years, have lived together from the start, bought a house last year, and are thinking maaaybe we'll get married in 2 years or so. So my words are well salted

I was thinking the same thing as I was reading the OP. I think your BF is feeling very, very pressured into marriage (his parents, you talk about bridesmaids and buying houses, etc) while having some bad examples dangled in front of him (his friends that were "trapped" by pregnant girlfriends - whether it was this or not, this is what he is hearing). You are both very young and I think he might be feeling that his life is being plotted for him (finish training, pay off debt, buy house, get married, have children, pay their college, curl up and die). Of course, life isn't that simple but it can seem like everyone is busy pushing you to the life they want you to live.

My advice: back way, way off. Sit down and tell him that you don't want to get married any time soon. Tell him that trapping a husband is a lousy, no-good idea since the husband will resent it, etc. Stop telling him you want a baby in 10 years time, at least for a while.

You have given him your advice on the house, now let him make his own decision, right or wrong. Even if you might, some day, marry his financial decisions, you haven't yet and it still his decision alone.

I have a niggling little feeling, however, that you might find that you don't really want to wait that long for marriage and children, even though it seems logical on paper.

Ah, I'm really glad I'm not the only one who can see this.  OP, you don't mention how frequently these conversations take place, but if there's any regularity or frequency at all, I can see how your BF would feel extremely pressured.  You may say "5-10 years away", but it sometimes seems there's a whole industry that is devoted to telling guys that girls don't really mean what they say.  Especially if his guy friends are "trapped" by their girl friends. 

Talking about buying a house with his friend may simply be a way of expressing "I'm not totally tied down" regarding your relationship.  Not saying that's a good thing, but it may not be a sign that he's ready to commit to someone and the someone isn't you.  It might just be talk.  DH and his friends talked for years about all buying a house together.  It was just a dream, a way to say "Hey, we're not going to lose touch with each other". 

[blarg314]

I think the first thing to point out is that you are not actually talking about the future with your boyfriend. You are making assumptions and dropping hints.

It's certainly acceptable and generally a good idea to discuss the future with a long term SO.  That means being direct - "Do you see us getting married some day?"  (if yes) "When do you see that happening?" "Where do you see us in two years?, Five?"  "Do you want kids?"  "When?"  If he says he wants to marry you, some day, then "Where does buying a house with your friend fit into this."

But what you are currently doing is basically assuming that you guys are going to get married and have kids, and dropping PA hints about it.

And I'm sorry, but from everything you've said it sounds like you and your BF are on totally different tracks. You're thinking of nesting, picturing your wedding, and kids and life together. He sounds, to put it bluntly, like he enjoys his relationship with you, but currently has absolutely zero intention of getting married or having kids with you or anyone else in the foreseeable future. If he's talking about buying a house with a friend, ie, a very, very major purchase and life decision that doesn't involve you, that just drives home the fact.

For what it's worth, talking about the future only scares guys off when you're jumping the gun (talking about kids names on the third date, say), or when they aren't interested in settling down.  For guys who are ready to settle down, it's not a problem. After my husband and I had been dating for a less than a year but before we were engaged, we had seriously  discussed things like kids, jobs, what country we'd live in and things like that, so it was clear we were on the same page.

From your perspective, you face a difficult but common decision. Are you happy to stay with your BF, *as things are* with no guarantee of marrying, living together, or having children? Keep in mind that you could wait for him for ten years, and then find out that he still doesn't want to get married or have kids. If the answer is yes, then you're okay. If the answer is no, then you *will* be okay, but it'll be painful for a while, as you move on with your life.

But it's really important not to get caught in a holding  pattern, with your life in idle waiting for something that someone else has to give you. Whatever you do, live your life fully. This is the time in your life when you can try new jobs or cities, travel, take up new hobbies and make new friends. If you spend it waiting for 'someday when he'll marry me' you can waste a lot of time and opportunity, and regret it later.

[Yarnie]

I think you should first decide what you want.  One, there's nothing wrong with thinking "I want to get married, and in this time frame."    Two, while you do hear of couples who get married after long relationships, I think most folks know by a year or two whether or not they want to get married.   I stuck around with two guys for 4+ years, all who hemmed and hawed and hemmed.   With my current husband, we were married within 3 years of meeting each other - and 18 months of that was with us engaged - I wanted to get married in the fall.

The big difference?  I was upfront with him.  Once we were serious, I told him that I was in my mid 30s (it sneaks up on you ), and I wanted to get married sooner rather than later.  If he wasn't going to be able to propose in a year or so, then we'd have to move on.    He made the deadline.   It wasn't an ultimatum - I was just telling him what my life plans were, and what I needed.  When I asked him why he was able to propose, he said that the thought of being without me was horrible - much more horrible than actually marrying me.

[Twik]

Not only is it okay to talk about the future, but I think it's necessary.

Yes. This is not being pushy, it's simply asking to know where you stand.

And like most other posters, I suspect if he were thinking of a life with you, he wouldn't be buying a home with a guy friend.

[WillyNilly]

I think you should first decide what you want.  One, there's nothing wrong with thinking "I want to get married, and in this time frame."    Two, while you do hear of couples who get married after long relationships, I think most folks know by a year or two whether or not they want to get married.   I stuck around with two guys for 4+ years, all who hemmed and hawed and hemmed.   With my current husband, we were married within 3 years of meeting each other - and 18 months of that was with us engaged - I wanted to get married in the fall.

The big difference?  I was upfront with him.  Once we were serious, I told him that I was in my mid 30s (it sneaks up on you ), and I wanted to get married sooner rather than later.  If he wasn't going to be able to propose in a year or so, then we'd have to move on.    He made the deadline.   It wasn't an ultimatum - I was just telling him what my life plans were, and what I needed.  When I asked him why he was able to propose, he said that the thought of being without me was horrible - much more horrible than actually marrying me.

This. 100%.

I'm not married but I'm 11 months into my relationship, my beau knows my deadline - not an ultimatum, but rather my personal life goals deadline - and we do discuss marriage, children, buying a house, etc with quite a bit of regulrity & ease.

The thing with your 10 year casualness with kids - if having kids is important to you, you need to build some cusion time into the plan. If you stgay with your BF for 10 years then don't get married, you have a few years bfore husband & kids comes back into the picture. Afterall if you breakup in 10 year it will take some time for you to heal and to learn to be an independent adult, then sometime in the dating scene finding a good match, then some time dating, some time being engaged and next thing you know 5 years have passed.

I personally would recomend not going straight from mom & dad's to living together without an engagement. Breakups are hard. Moving is hard. Sometime people stay in relationships that aren't really woring because its easier. Because its not that bad... but its not what they really want either. Add to that the anxiety of moving out to live on your own for the first time ever... Plus stuff like housework, bills, etc that might be mostly covered by parents - its best everyone enter living togetherf with a very clear understanding of what it entails and what the state of heir intended partners current home is like.