Should I use this on my mother?

[O'Dell]

You asked your mom for advice about a friend and she gave you her opinion. 

Because you disagree with her assessment doesn't make it an insult to you.
 
Instead of discussing it you argued with her.
 
I don't see that your mother did anything wrong.

She didn't give me advice, she gave me her opinion of my friend.  Advice would be about how to deal with it, not an assessment of my friend's character.

I agree with you, DM. Your friend is looking for advice on the situation she is in *now*, and your mother's response is "grow up" and that she's in the situation because she's immature?

She pretty much said that if Dark Friend was more mature, she would have been able to see the abuse for what it was.

So does she agree that Friend is being abused? That's how I'm reading the above quote from you. I don't see how that is helpful. I hope that as a doctor that isn't what she says to her patients that admit to being in abusive relationships.

Although I do think your friend needs to be the one to ask for advice herself. That she's asking thru you seems immature, but maybe she fears getting that reaction from people she wants to confide in. It's hard enough for people in bad relationships to reach out.

[Mental Magpie]

You asked your mom for advice about a friend and she gave you her opinion. 

Because you disagree with her assessment doesn't make it an insult to you.
 
Instead of discussing it you argued with her.
 
I don't see that your mother did anything wrong.

She didn't give me advice, she gave me her opinion of my friend.  Advice would be about how to deal with it, not an assessment of my friend's character.

(1)You said that she said "Tell her to grow up."  That is not a character assessment, its a suggestion.
 
(2)You're reading all sorts of things into it--that your mother doesn't really think its mental abuse, etc, etc, etc.
 
(3)Instead of getting more insight into what she does mean, you contradict her, start arguing and take offense.
 
(4)I agree with your mother's frustration when she has apparently said to you on other occasions: "Well, what do you want me to say?"

(I numbered them so I could follow about which one I was talking.)

1.  Coming from my mother, that is a suggestion based on a narrow minded judgement about my friend.  How do I know this?  She's my mom, that's how she is. 

2.  Of course I am reading stuff into it because I can't figure out why else she would say something like that.  I am also reading into it because I know my mother, I know how she thinks about certain things.

3.  Of course I took offense and argued.  When I was asking for advice on a touchy subject, I instead get a judgmental assessment of my friend's character, a judgment that immediately ticks me off and is unhelpful.  The unhelpful part irritated me even more.  I am under stress, asking for help, and instead of it, I get a very unhelpful opinion that dismisses my original reason for asking.  "Oh, you need help?  Let me give you my unhelpful opinion instead."  I don't see why me getting angry and sticking up for my friend is out of line.

4.  I want advice, I want help.  I do not want opinions about my friend's character.  If she had no advice and only her opinion, all she had to say was, "I don't have anything to say."  If you don't have anything nice to say...

You asked your mom for advice about a friend and she gave you her opinion. 

Because you disagree with her assessment doesn't make it an insult to you.
 
Instead of discussing it you argued with her.
 
I don't see that your mother did anything wrong.

She didn't give me advice, she gave me her opinion of my friend.  Advice would be about how to deal with it, not an assessment of my friend's character.

I agree with you, DM. Your friend is looking for advice on the situation she is in *now*, and your mother's response is "grow up" and that she's in the situation because she's immature?

She pretty much said that if Dark Friend was more mature, she would have been able to see the abuse for what it was.

So does she agree that Friend is being abused? That's how I'm reading the above quote from you. I don't see how that is helpful. I hope that as a doctor that isn't what she says to her patients that admit to being in abusive relationships.

Although I do think your friend needs to be the one to ask for advice herself. That she's asking thru you seems immature, but maybe she fears getting that reaction from people she wants to confide in. It's hard enough for people in bad relationships to reach out.

Regarding the bolded: My mother is a wonderful doctor, very caring and helpful with her patients.  She has been recognized for this on plenty occasions, even strangers (once finding out I am her daughter) telling me how wonderful she is.  I am her daughter, though, so she'll speak her mind.  Not her customer, I don't get customer service.

Oh, and FTR, Dark Friend didn't ask me to ask advice on that occasion, I did it on my own knowing, though, that Dark Friend would not have minded (and she didn't, I asked her later).

[Audrey Quest]

"Grow up" is not equivalent to "You are immature."
 
It's also a way of saying that person needs to step up and take control of their life.  They need to stop waiting for someone else to take care of it and them.

[Mental Magpie]

I don't see how they aren't equivalent. No snark, could you please explain to me how you see that they are different?

I was specifically asking my mother about a step that Dark Friend needed to take next, as in "Does she need to do this, that, or something else?"  "She needs to grow up" is not a helpful answer. Dark Friend was trying to take control of her life, she just was not sure how to do it.

[Audrey Quest]

I don't see how they aren't equivalent. No snark, could you please explain to me how you see that they are different?

I was specifically asking my mother about a step that Dark Friend needed to take next, as in "Does she need to do this, that, or something else?"  "She needs to grow up" is not a helpful answer. Dark Friend was trying to take control of her life, she just was not sure how to do it.

It's not the only thing it can mean.

Someone could be mature, capable of being an adult but for a number of reasons, not acting like it.  Or someone could actually be immature and incapable of acting like an adult.  Telling someone to grow up is kind of tough love for getting them to figure out which one.

It doesn't automatically assume that someone is immature, but that their behavior is not in line with someone who is trying acting like an adult.
 
The thing that was confusing about your post was that you also went so far as to infer that your mother didn't think it was mental abuse.

The abuse is not dependent on whether or not Dark Friend is mature or immature.  But, her reaction to the abuse is.
 
I don't really understand what you want from your mother.  I know she is a medical doctor, but she can't really treat your friend through you.  And you can't "save" your friend by somehow finding just the right advice.

One thing I have learned is that people rarely take the advice they are offered when they are in a situation like this.  It's usually pretty obvious what they need to do, but they will come up with a million reasons for why they can't do it.
 
The problem is not coming up with the right kind of advice, its facing what must be done and doing it.
 

[Mental Magpie]

Thank you for explaining; I see what you mean.

If you're referring to when I said something along the lines of "There is no way she could emotionally abuse because she's immature" when talking about my mother, I was just giving an example using the current discussion.  I was not clear about that and I apologize.

I did not want medical advice from my mom.  I wanted advice from someone whose advice I usually respect (or at least consider with great weight) and from someone that has much more life experience than I.  I wasn't trying to save my friend, either, she was already trying to do that on her own.  This is just another example, not the real question, but I was leading up to asking my mother something like "Should she wait to file for custody until the end of the week or should she do it in the morning?  These are the pros and cons..."

[Lisbeth]

"Grow up" is not equivalent to "You are immature."
 
It's also a way of saying that person needs to step up and take control of their life.  They need to stop waiting for someone else to take care of it and them.

Sorry, but I disagree, having been on the receiving end of this line too many times from persons who are not entitled to preach to me.  It can really be insulting and offensive because it's very dismissive of what the person it's said to might be going through that they can't control.  Basically it's used as a put-down and is really snotty, regardless of the intention of the user.

[Audrey Quest]

"Grow up" is not equivalent to "You are immature."
 
It's also a way of saying that person needs to step up and take control of their life.  They need to stop waiting for someone else to take care of it and them.

Sorry, but I disagree, having been on the receiving end of this line too many times from persons who are not entitled to preach to me.  It can really be insulting and offensive because it's very dismissive of what the person it's said to might be going through that they can't control.  Basically it's used as a put-down and is really snotty, regardless of the intention of the user.

The mother is not saying it directly to the OPs friend and the friend obviously isn't going to pass it on the same way.
 
And you might want to consider that the OPs mother has been asked for her opinion of the situation.  It's not unusual for someone to reply to this way about someone who is clearly making bad choices.

I can see how it can be used as a put down but I can also see how it can meant absolutely seriously.  The OP immediately took offense on behalf of her friend and didn't ask her mother to elaborate.

I don't think you should go around asking advice of people and then getting upset at their take on it.  If you know someone really well, then you know what they are likely to say--it shouldn't be such a surprise.
 
The reason the OP cannot use the phrase "so kind of you to take an interest" is because the mother did not take an interest, the OP brought the problem to her.

[Lisbeth]

"Grow up" is not equivalent to "You are immature."
 
It's also a way of saying that person needs to step up and take control of their life.  They need to stop waiting for someone else to take care of it and them.

Sorry, but I disagree, having been on the receiving end of this line too many times from persons who are not entitled to preach to me.  It can really be insulting and offensive because it's very dismissive of what the person it's said to might be going through that they can't control.  Basically it's used as a put-down and is really snotty, regardless of the intention of the user.

The mother is not saying it directly to the OPs friend and the friend obviously isn't going to pass it on the same way.
 
And you might want to consider that the OPs mother has been asked for her opinion of the situation.  It's not unusual for someone to reply to this way about someone who is clearly making bad choices.

I can see how it can be used as a put down but I can also see how it can meant absolutely seriously.  The OP immediately took offense on behalf of her friend and didn't ask her mother to elaborate.

I don't think you should go around asking advice of people and then getting upset at their take on it.  If you know someone really well, then you know what they are likely to say--it shouldn't be such a surprise.
 
The reason the OP cannot use the phrase "so kind of you to take an interest" is because the mother did not take an interest, the OP brought the problem to her.

I don't disagree that "So kind of you to take an interest" wouldn't be appropriate here, but "Grow up" is nothing but snark.  It contributes nothing positive to the situation.  If the mother wants to give useful advice, a cut-down isn't helpful here, and that's all "Grow up" is.

[hyzenthlay]

"Should she wait to file for custody until the end of the week or should she do it in the morning?  These are the pros and cons..."

In this case, I think your Mother simply isn't interested in trying to figure out legal advice for your friend.

And it's really no slight on her or you that your Mother isn't interested in the plight of someone who I assume is a virtual stranger to her. It would have been far better for her to say 'I really have nothing to offer int he way of advice' but I think you are reading too much into her offhand comment.

Her profession really has nothing to do with it. People can be wonderful professional caring anythings and still not be interested in being helpful or even particularly polite when they are not on the clock.

I think your best bet is to not discuss your friend with your Mother again.

[Lisbeth]

"Should she wait to file for custody until the end of the week or should she do it in the morning?  These are the pros and cons..."

In this case, I think your Mother simply isn't interested in trying to figure out legal advice for your friend.

And it's really no slight on her or you that your Mother isn't interested in the plight of someone who I assume is a virtual stranger to her. It would have been far better for her to say 'I really have nothing to offer int he way of advice' but I think you are reading too much into her offhand comment.

Her profession really has nothing to do with it. People can be wonderful professional caring anythings and still not be interested in being helpful or even particularly polite when they are not on the clock.

I think your best bet is to not discuss your friend with your Mother again.

Pod.  Despite her profession, I don't think your mother has anything constructive to offer-just hostility.

[Mental Magpie]

"Should she wait to file for custody until the end of the week or should she do it in the morning?  These are the pros and cons..."

In this case, I think your Mother simply isn't interested in trying to figure out legal advice for your friend.

And it's really no slight on her or you that your Mother isn't interested in the plight of someone who I assume is a virtual stranger to her. It would have been far better for her to say 'I really have nothing to offer int he way of advice' but I think you are reading too much into her offhand comment.

Her profession really has nothing to do with it. People can be wonderful professional caring anythings and still not be interested in being helpful or even particularly polite when they are not on the clock.

I think your best bet is to not discuss your friend with your Mother again.

Dark Friend has been one of my best friends since high school; she is not at all a stranger to my mom, which is another reason I asked my mom.

It was not an offhand comment, and it was said in such a way that it was most certainly a put down.  I did not think my mother would say that to me because she was married to a recovering alcoholic and my sister, her daughter, is also a recovering alcoholic.  I thought if anyone would understand some basic psychology, my mother would be the person.

FTR, it wasn't legal advice either, that was just an example.

Also FTR, my mother days take an interest in Dark Friend, asking how she's doing from time to time and now how things are going with the divorce.  That was why I posted here, but I will admit that a) I did not think that one through when I did post here, because I would probably have said it meanly and not in an e-hell approved way; and b) I really couldn't think of anywhere else to put it because I was mad.

[Lisbeth]

"Should she wait to file for custody until the end of the week or should she do it in the morning?  These are the pros and cons..."

In this case, I think your Mother simply isn't interested in trying to figure out legal advice for your friend.

And it's really no slight on her or you that your Mother isn't interested in the plight of someone who I assume is a virtual stranger to her. It would have been far better for her to say 'I really have nothing to offer int he way of advice' but I think you are reading too much into her offhand comment.

Her profession really has nothing to do with it. People can be wonderful professional caring anythings and still not be interested in being helpful or even particularly polite when they are not on the clock.

I think your best bet is to not discuss your friend with your Mother again.

Dark Friend has been one of my best friends since high school; she is not at all a stranger to my mom, which is another reason I asked my mom.

It was not an offhand comment, and it was said in such a way that it was most certainly a put down.  I did not think my mother would say that to me because she was married to a recovering alcoholic and my sister, her daughter, is also a recovering alcoholic.  I thought if anyone would understand some basic psychology, my mother would be the person.

FTR, it wasn't legal advice either, that was just an example.

Also FTR, my mother days take an interest in Dark Friend, asking how she's doing from time to time and now how things are going with the divorce.  That was why I posted here, but I will admit that a) I did not think that one through when I did post here, because I would probably have said it meanly and not in an e-hell approved way; and b) I really couldn't think of anywhere else to put it because I was mad.

In this instance, I'd respond, "She's doing as well as can be expected" with no other details.

[Nayners]

I understand what your mother is saying. Believe me, at the age of 23, you've haven't yet experienced anything that would allow you to understand your mother's point of view. Being a physician is what your mom does for a living. If a woman comes to see your mom professionally, with the same situation as your friend, ethically she is obligated to assist her in some way. Her personal feelings will be put to the side.

I think you are misinterpreting what your mom means when she says your friend should "grow up". Somewhere along the way, your friend didn't get something that she needed, to know when it was time to walk. For whatever reason she remained in an relationship that finally escalated to physical violence.

Since you know that your mom may not always say what you want to hear, just say "OK". No need to argue if she doesn't agree with your point of view. I'll bet in about 20 years you will remember some of your disagreements and realize your mom was actually right!

[Merry Mrs Martin]

  I think it's best you limit asking your mom's advise about emotional subjects.  Right or wrong she's entitled to her opinion if you ask her opinion she is entitled to voice it, if her opinion upsets you don't ask.

I had a friend once who was in a bad situation I let her cry on shoulder gave advise she ignored after about I don't know 100 of the exact same instance I got really blunt.  (I don't know how to make clear how obvious the outcome was without giving information if she recognize so just trust me it was OBVIUOS along the lines of "I stuck my finger in a light socket and it hurt" )  " really? obvious thing happened AGAIN? I can't believe he did that 101 times you could have never seen that coming(I was 14/15 )especially since he said he planned to continuedoing obvious thing.  It's not going change , wanting it to be different will not make it different. I don't want to hear about this anymore"  I simply was not equipped to fix this issue , he was an evil jerk but she had no intention or capacity to face reality. It was like dealing with a drug addict who hadn't hit bottom yet.  It took her several more months to walk away from this situation only to enter an almost identical situation and stayed in it for 10 years.