Etiquette Hell = Where the ill-mannered deserve to go


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"I think this site is so underrated and everyone needs to read a few posts and learn how not act. This whole site serves as a wonderful cautionary tale of what not to do. "




Love your page - here is my story:

My husband and I know a couple and everyone loves the wife but loathes the husband. You will know why in a moment! They seem to have a lot of money but either work part-time or have not worked for long periods of time and none of our friends can figure out how they do it. The wife, who I will call Kate, always sends lovely cards and gifts at special times during the year. I always send an etiquettely-correct thank you note and I send cards to them, but we just have not had the money to send the kind of gifts back to them that they send to us. (Once a year I will send them something very nice for Christmas, but that's it).

So, they are visiting the city where we live and we all went out to dinner. They had been insisting before they arrived that they wanted to go to their favorite restaurant (they used to live in this city) and they wanted to *treat*. I said let's go dutch - and would have insisted that WE pay - but I was 8 months pregnant at the time and their favorite place was pricey. We didn't actually settle it until that night when we met them out and as we had our first course they mentioned again that they wanted to treat us. My husband said no, we didn't want them to do that and it went back and forth like that. I said, "if you treat tonight then we will treat next time on *Kate's* birthday" and the husband (the guy no one likes) said, "You can take us to Wendy's." I said that no, we would treat them to a lovely meal whereupon he said, "Just call us when you are on our side of rich." We just sat there, our mouths agape. I didn't even know exactly what he meant, but I knew it was rude.

My husband disappeared some minutes after that statement was made and after the meal my husband said, "There is no need to wait for the check. This has been taken care of" -- it was over 200$. But on the way home while we talked about it he said, "There was NO WAY I was going to let that #$%&*#@ spend one dollar on us - and that is the last time I have a meal with them!"

A young couple were marrying at their own expense, without financial help from their parents. In order to reduce costs and still be gracious hosts, they limited the taking of professional photographs to a short session immediately after the ceremony, and placed throwaway instant cameras on all the tables at the reception., so that the guests could take candid pictures of each other.

This was meant to be a fun addition to the reception and also to ensure that most or all of the guests would be captured for the couple to remember.

The cameras were collected after the party and the film developed, again at the bridal couple's expense. They found many attractive shots of their friends and relatives, but were disgusted to find that one table of their alleged friends had used the cameras to take under-the-table "crotch shots" of one another's naked genitals.

We invited a friend for a weekend of fishing. Upon arrival, we were surprised to see Friend, his grade-school son, two of his son's friends, and THEIR fathers! They'd be no trouble at all, Friend assured us, because the boys would stay in the RV in which they arrived.  Next morning, they all boat off into the sunrise while I head out for a vet appointment with my large, rowdy puppy.

Surprise #2 appeared when I found the boys in the house - alone - when I returned mid-morning. All three kids are playing video games, eating snacks and drinking pop while lying on the living room carpet (I don't think these kids even knew pop could be carried into their living rooms at home, but it was apparently OK at my house.) Now there's a real dilemma. I have another appointment, this time sans dog. These kids are old enough to look after themselves, but the dog is nearly as big as the boys. Can't leave them all in the house. I shoo the boys back out to the RV and head out again. I come back later to find that the boys had gone back into the house to play.

After sorting out the stories later, it seems the dog proposed a rousing game of volleyball, and in the ensuing ruckus, the door of the entertainment armoire is broken right down the middle (again, I'm betting not one of these boys ever walked through their own living rooms carrying a volleyball, let alone considered throwing the ball while they were there).

Now, all of this could have been forgiven, as kids will, indeed, be kids. What was unforgivable was the parents' reaction to the damage. Looking his son squarely in the eye, Friend asked him, "You don't know anything about this, do you?" Of course, Son knew nothing. Hadn't seen a thing, didn't know anything about half a door lying on the floor. I waited for a call from Friend's wife, thinking she'd be horrified that her husband left her son alone for the better part of a day, and that major damage was done to our largest piece of furniture.
Instead, when she called, she was alarmed that her son could have been hurt by my dog! Needless to say, they were never invited again.....

Dear Jeanne,

This is the most horrid example of social faux-pas that I have ever had the gruesome opportunity to experience first hand. I thought you might like it, if not for the web page, then for your own personal files. It happened last year, and I can finally talk about the situation and see the humor in it.

I had been "dating" a guy via the net for close to a year. We called each other frequently, but because we were both full time students working to put ourselves through college (he had one job part-time job, I had three, and I was doing my student teaching), we had been unable to meet. Finally, I put my foot down and told him now or never. We decided that he would come visit me during the Thanksgiving vacation. He was to arrive early in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day and stay until Saturday evening. I would like to point out that I was very clear with this guy that even though we hit it
off on-line and via the phone, I realized that meeting in person could end up VERY differently, so just come with the idea of "I want to meet this friend" in mind, rather than "I want to marry this woman and have her bear my children". He said he understood. Ok, good.

A week before he was to come, I started coming down with something. It rapidly got worse, and I decided I needed to let him know so that he could try to reschedule his visit. I called him from my bed, 4 days before he was to arrive and let him know how sick I was. He commented on how awful I sounded, so I know that he could tell I was sick. I could only manage to be on the phone for a few minutes before it got to be too much for me. I asked him what he thought and he said he'd bank on me being better by the time he arrived and would still come. I didn't want to tell him not to come because airline tickets can be a pain to deal with, but I was VERY CLEAR that there was a good chance I would still be sick. 

The night before his arrival came and I decided I needed to call him again. At this point, I had been getting 3 hours of sleep a night because I was coughing so much, and had pulled several neck muscles because of it. Driving was incredibly painful in my old beat-up car, as the vibrations exacerbated the muscle pain. As a result I couldn't turn my head without turning my whole body. I called and basically said I didn't think he should come. He insisted he wanted to meet me and that he would be understanding if I could just get him at the airport.

Ok, fine. So the next day I drag myself to the car to go pick him up. I'll admit that I was a half hour late getting on the road, but the fact that I had to keep lying down while I was getting dressed slowed me down a little. It was snowing out. My car at the time was an '85 Sprint on its last wheel. The drive to the airport should have taken an hour, but ended up taking twice that long because of the weather, holiday traffic, and the fact that my car kept mysteriously losing power every 10 minutes and I would slow down to 50 mph.

When I arrived at the airport, looking and feeling like crap, it took me 15 minutes to find a parking place, then another 15 minutes to locate the guy. I greeted him and apologized profusely for being 2 hours late. I explained why I was late and that he shouldn't take offense if I don't look at him a lot because I can't turn my neck and I need to see where I'm going as we walk to the car. We made it to the car and I asked him to drive in light of the situation. He declined. So, I got in and started driving us to my Mom's house (2 hours away) where we were due to have a late Thanksgiving
dinner in 3 hours time.

So, picture the situation. I've been sick for a week. I can barely function. I've already driven for 2 hours. My neck is throbbing. I'm very disappointed that our first meeting happened this way. It's snowing and I don't have snow tires. My car is periodically dying. And, to top it all off, any time I say anything to this guy, he makes some sort of sarcastic comment back as if I'd planned the illness and hadn't told him about it or ASKED him not to come. It's not a pretty picture.

Half way home, I insist on pulling over to call my mom because I know we're going to be late, and I know that she thinks this guy I'm picking up from the airport is going to be a psycho-killer. So, we pull off the high way, pull up to a gas station, and I go to use the phone. The phone is on the other side of the building, which was a good thing, because when my mom answered, I just started sobbing. I was sick of being sick and I was having an awful time imagining spending the next 3 days with this guy who had so far shown no sympathy or understanding toward my condition as he had assured me he would if he came. My mom calmed me down, told me she'd hold dinner for us, and to hurry home.

As we continued home, he became irate that I wasn't looking at him when I talked to him. I explained that I was DRIVING in what had developed into a BLIZZARD, and besides that, I had already explained about my neck pain. He was huffy for a while, then started pleading with me, "Talk to me, please!" Ahhh-wha'? I had been talking to you and you yelled at me, putz! Anyway, I tried to come up with conversation, asking him about his flight, what his family was doing for the holidays, and he would answer me with one sentence replies. I kept waiting for him to ask ME something, but he'd just wait a
minute and then start begging me to talk to him again. Holy heck.

We arrived, miraculously, only about 15 minutes late. My family was very helpful during dinner and kept the guy talking for me. I managed to eat half a plate of food between having to excuse myself to go to the bathroom for one of my coughing fits. He would groan every time I left the table.

After dinner was cleared, it was 9:30, and I was having a hard time staying awake. I was literally unable to stay vertical without leaning on the table. I showed the guy to the guest room, which happened to be directly above mine. He complained quite loudly about how he couldn't believe I was going to bed so early as I left him. I could NOT believe this boy, as I sunk down the stairs and collapsed into my bed. It was some time around 2am that I was eventually able to fall asleep, as I kept being racked with coughing fits. The following morning, I awoke at 8 am, to find the guy up and ready to "see the area" with me. I managed a shower, but apologized and explained that the day before had been really taxing for me and I really felt like I should spend the day in. I assured him there were plenty of things we could do around the house that would allow us to get to know one another better in person, and allow me to rest some at the same time. I told him that I hadn't been able to fall asleep. He replied with, "I KNOW, you kept ME up all night with your coughing, TOO, but you don't see ME wanting to hang around the house all day, do you?" He sulked for hours, but I refused to budge. After that last comment, I just wanted to kill him. I didn't even try to pretend to want to be nice to him any more. We spent the morning watching TV while I dozed on the couch. I started feeling badly around lunch time, though, so we hopped in my car (again, he refused to drive) and we did some holiday shopping. Or, I should say, I followed him around some stores while he did some holiday shopping. We got home around 3:30, and my neck was visibly swollen from the muscles that were strained by all my coughing and car vibrations.

When my mom got home from work, she said that she was very worried about me and wanted to take me to the hospital. The guy got REALLY upset then. After my mom left the room, he came over and sat on the edge of the couch. He said he had really wanted to take me out for dinner and a movie that night. Couldn't I wait until tomorrow morning to go to the hospital? (?!?!?!) I was so out of it by then, and my student insurance would only cover visits to the campus infirmary, which was closed over the holidays that I said fine, as long as my mom could come, too. (I may have been out of it, but I knew that I didn't want to be alone with this guy any more. And, if I had to drive in my car anymore, I was afraid my neck muscles would rupture.

So, we went out for Chinese food, and my mom saved me by asking the guy a long, long, long string of questions. (He still wasn't asking us anything about ourselves. Conversation to him was someone asking him something, and him answering it.) After the movie, we returned home, and I headed for my bedroom. He followed me and reamed me out for being "so rude all day. You wouldn't even LOOK at me. And why wouldn't you TALK to me at dinner?!" I explained once more about my neck and the coughing. I tried to spare him by telling him that it seemed that he and my mom were having such a nice conversation and I was enjoying listening to them. (In reality, I had very little recollection of what they had actually been talking about. It was all I could do to keep myself from falling face down in my soup.) He left my room in a huff, and I sunk into bed and waited for the coughing to die down so I could fall asleep.

The next morning, I awoke in a chipper mood. Not because I was feeling better, but because he was leaving in 12 hours. That alone gave me enough of a boost to show him around a bit more. With every self-absorbed comment out of his mouth, I just though, "only 8 more hours...", "only 7 more hours." We met up with a couple of my friends for a few hours. They could see right away what an awful situation this was, and one of them sort of herded the guy away from me, while the other got the details from me. It was awful. After they had to leave, I decided that it was time to start heading for the airport. We arrived and as we entered the parking lot, I made a mental note of the parking prices and saw that I only had enough cash to stay for an hour. Plenty of time, I thought, as his plane was set to leave in 45 minutes.

We went into the airport and found out his plane had been delayed. I explained that I would stay with him as long as I could, but that I only had enough money on me to pay for an hour of parking. He said, "No problem!" and slipped me a dollar bill. Every half hour period in the parking lot jumped the price up $1.50. I told him this, and he insisted that I was exaggerating. I decided not to push it. It would all be over soon enough.

Finally, he got on the plane. I was sure to wait until he went past the bend in the entry-ramp. He made a big show of turning and waving to me before he passed out of view. I looked at the clock and saw that if I could get out of there in 5 minutes time, I would have enough money to pay the parking. Well, I didn't make it. They ended up taking my license plate number and I had to pay a $20 fee.

The story doesn't end there. Sunday the dorms reopened, and after getting my bags in my room, I walked to the infirmary, where I was told I had a very pronounced case of bronchitis, and was given 3 prescriptions to have filled. I spent that night, and the following day in bed recovering. On Tuesday, I felt well enough to at least drag myself to my morning classes. On the way back, I stopped to check my email and found a letter
from the guy telling me that he hoped that we could see each other again soon. At this point, I was feeling well enough to have most of my normal personality back and I wrote him a long email detailing exactly why I thought he was a total idiot and that I hoped I would NEVER see him again. He wrote back detailing how I had been so rude (again, I wouldn't look at him, and I was an awful conversationalist, etc., etc.) He told me he had never had anyone "fake being sick" to excuse themselves from common courtesy. I wrote back telling him about the doctor's diagnosis, but all I got back was another flame for how rude I had been to him. I wonder if he's still nursing that notion a year later. Maybe he'll read this and get a clue.

I do want to start off by telling you I love your web page, it's great!!!

I recently went to my fiancé's uncle's wedding. My fiancée, has these horrible aunts, (the uncle's sisters). The wedding was held at the Disneyland Hotel. We didn't want to spend the money to stay at the Disneyland hotel, so we stayed at a small motel down the street. When we got to my fiancé's grandmother's hotel room at the Disneyland hotel, (mother of the groom) she told us that my fiancé's Aunts have been wanting to get a hold of us for the last 24 hours. They wanted to ride over to the Hotel with us so they wouldn't have to pay for parking!!! (we were smart and refused to tell them the exact motel we were staying at, so they wouldn't show up unexpectantly, they are the type that would want to camp out on the floor of the room so they wouldn't have to pay for their own room). We show up at the wedding and during the ceremony both of us noticed that these two aunts never showed up to the ceremony. (We were waiting for them to show up late). At the end of the ceremony it was time for the family to take the pictures, and they still haven't shown up!!!

We walked over to the reception room and they actually showed up, just in time for dinner!!! One of the Aunts never RSVP'ed at all so there was no place setting set for her at the family table, no one thought she would come. Well the two women, obviously already drunk sat down at the table, and took up one of the seats reserved for the best mans wife, (who is my fiancé's aunt by marriage). The aunt refused to move, and the best man's wife had to sit at another table. Then one of the aunts asked if she could finish my food for me during dinner (are you going to eat that!!!)

When the champagne came, they told the hostess to keep the bottles coming, they were really loud and obnoxious through the whole thing and during dinner constantly sauntered over to the head table to bug the bride and groom. One of the aunts were wearing beach thongs with her dress. They spilled their alcohol on my fiancé's 12 year old cousin, and followed me and my fiancé around everywhere. When my fiancé asked them why they didn't make it to the ceremony and told them that they missed a beautiful wedding, they shrugged their shoulders and said, oh well, who cares. Later on one of the aunt's twin daughters showed up (of course never RSVP'ed) with there tightest black dressed on. The aunts made constant comments on how big the twins' breasts were, then proceeded to buy the underage girls drinks from the bar, when they realized that it wasn't a party full of single guys, one of them left and went to the arcade!!!! I sure hope my fiancé doesn't invite them to are wedding!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of my bridesmaids was getting married three months after we were. A month before our wedding, she phoned up to ask if her parents could come to the wedding too, since they were anxious to "take notes" and see what a modern wedding was like. Since we knew her parents reasonably well, we were happy to invite them.

I had promised my bridesmaid that I would gladly help in the planning of her wedding, and had offered to loan her the decorations from our wedding. Since her parents were coming to the wedding, I suggested that they could pick up the decorations after our ceremony.

We had a lovely ceremony, and the church was decorated beautifully. But immediately after we had recessed up the aisle after the ceremony, before any of the guests had left their seats, my bridesmaid's parents began gathering up the decorations. A friend had to persuade them to leave the decorations until we had had photos taken in the church after
the ceremony. As our photos were being taken, the parents hovered in the background waiting to gather up the decorations. The minute we were finished they swooped down and stripped the church bare. Then at the reception, they started "cleaning up" well before the reception had come to an end. Not only did they have to be asked to stop taking down decorations, but they had to be asked to return several things that were not ours and not for loan.

But the worst was their trying to monopolize my poor mother during the reception, interviewing her about various aspects of wedding planning and taking notes. They made no effort to
mingle with the other guests, but instead stayed in the background, writing in a notebook.

What hurt us the most was that we had invited them as friends. Yet they clearly were not at the wedding to support our marriage but to use our wedding to their advantage. We are still close friends with our bridesmaid, who never really realized what was happening, but we haven't talked to her parents since.

Here is a frightening tale: I got married about three years ago. The reception guests were the usual mix: friends, business acquaintances, family(and their uninvited children,grr). Around the middle of the reception, "Fred" shows up.

Get this: "Fred" was my married aunt's lover for many years-it was quite a family scandal. Not only did he attend the reception UNINVITED, he brought a date! And it wasn't my aunt!! They cheerfully congratulated me, ate heartily and enjoyed dancing together. (A little side note on "Fred"-when the social worker came to his mom's house, he would pretend that he lived there and act mentally disabled so she could keep receiving government checks.) I don't know how he got wind of the free feed. He didn't come to the wedding. I am not making this up!!

At my bridal shower , my mother insisted I invite my "eccentric " aunt who never fails to embarrass me. This shower was given by my soon-to-be in-laws and I didn't want a scene. Well, "Aunt Theresa" (thinking this was a compliment) kept repeatedly telling the hostess how much she resembled Julia Child until she was in tears. As a shower gift, Auntie presented me a pink plastic heart-shaped potato-masher and a worn-out rollingpin with "Spare the rod and spoil the child" written with blank ink all over it. AHHHHH!!!!!!

Perhaps not actually 'from Hell' since we're all comfortably laughing about it at the present, but four years ago when we were married there was quite the dust up involving the invitations at our wedding.

My fiancée' and I were planning for our wedding and dividing up the invitations between the two families. Invitations were to be at a premium since our wedding and reception site was limited in space. My mother (who historically is not a buttinski) had a lot of ideas about who on my side of the family should get invitations and succeeded in securing a majority of invites for her relations. This was not altogether unwarranted as they are, numerically, the largest family and she assured us that many of my distant relatives were quite interested in attending... not to mention lavishing us with gifts. And to expect a gift, they must be invited, must they not? My mother has always been a stickler for detail and she came up with long lists of who to invite and who might safely be relied upon to actually attend or not attend and in what numbers.

The long and the short of it was that in the case of her oldest living relative, my mother's assurance was that we ought to extend the matriarch an invitation for her and a guest (presumed to be her unmarried grand-daughter) and that, at her age, she probably would decline to attend even though she lived reasonably close. This was considered by my wife and I to be our biggest wild-card...would they or would they not attend? Invitations went out, replies came in and were counted, but we'd heard nothing from this party. Finally the deadline for the caterers and such came and we 'counted them out' and, as I recalled, gave the nod to another family member to bring some others that they had broadly hinted at. At the last moment it seemed, their RSVP came in... for SIX! My fiancée' was horrified! She got on the phone with my mother (without my knowledge) and told her that she had to call her aunt and talk some sense into her. Then, as it turned out, my mother got on the phone with my fiancée's mother and was in tears; very sorry for all the trouble she had caused. Then my mother-in-law-to-be called my wife-to-be and gave her an earful. Needless to say there were a lot of tears being shed on behalf of the happiest day of our lives.

The final act was that, this ancient aunt (and most of her entourage) did actually turn up at the wedding... but they arrived AFTER the ceremony, and left BEFORE the catered reception. Unbelievable! Happily, there was enough food and seats for all who did attend the entire event.

Love your site, very happy to have stumbled on it. Keep up the good work.

One Saturday night I was throwing a party at my house. A few people showed up who were not even invited however, I let them in anyway. When the party was dying down I felt banging and a lot of noise, I looked out side and the uninvited guests were trying to pull my doorstep off my home. The party was over when I saw that. Needless to say they never got back in my home again.

This past summer, I attended a wedding for a second cousin of mine. We didn't know them all that well, but we were very honored to have been invited. Theirs was a full Italian wedding, with a fantastic 7-course meal and all the trimmings. The reception itself was nothing short of beautiful. There were 400+ people there, supposedly to support the bride and groom at the beginning of their new lives together.

The problem occurred during the speeches. At a time when all attention should be to the head table, the guests just would NOT SHUT UP. People just kept on yapping and socializing while the bridal party and relatives were attempting to speak. The DJ and the speakers repeatedly asked for quiet, but none was to be had. Even though the speeches were a bit difficult to hear due to acoustics, I was horrified at the lack of respect by the guests. They were at a wedding, yet did not care to be quiet during the speeches. I felt like gagging some of them.

Last Hanukkah, my SIL called to ask if we wouldn't mind hosting the annual Hanukkah Party. My husband & I thought this would be a terrific idea and readily agreed. (This involves cooking dinner for 9 + ourselves, 4 of the guest are the best friends of the in-laws, no problem.) We thought it would be a great idea to invite my family as well, which brings the total to 15. Still, no problem, it's a big house.

Two days later, the 2nd SIL calls to talk over food options (meat or milk?)...I, of course, mention that my folks will be coming. We talk things over a little longer and hang up on a good note. One hour later, the 1st SIL calls and informs my husband that my family is not welcome at the party, and to please ask me to uninvite them. (They've never spent much time with my family, but everyone gets along well.) At this point, all hell breaks loose. My husband and I are shocked and surprised that she has the gal to tell us who we can invite into our own home, while the SIL is surprised that we are upset about it at all.

Why should I cook a big holiday meal for them & not be allowed to invite my parents, sister & BIL to my own home? Then they have the nerve to send us an invitation to the annual Party at their house on the same day it was going to be at our house. Our solution: Invite all our Jewish friends & my
family for our own party, as planned, on the original date. We had a great time.

BTW, greatly entertaining website!

This has to be one of the most hilarious sites on the Web. There's something really funny about seeing people at their worst. OK, I got married a couple of months ago, and my story goes like this: I invited a number of work colleagues to my wedding, because after four years many of them are people with whom I've developed close relationships outside of the office. Most of them were quite prompt and courteous with the RSVP's, but one person failed to respond in anything remotely resembling a timely manner. The caterer's price for the reception was $75 per head, so this person (I'll call him Rude Bob) plus his wife represented $150. I followed up with Rude Bob to find out what his plans were, and his response was "I don't know if I'll be doing anything else that day or not. Check with me in a couple of weeks." Does this strike you as rude? I thought it was, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt--i.e., *maybe* his response wasn't intended to sound so ungracious.

A couple of weeks passed. I went to check in with Rude Bob again, and he said "I still don't know what our plans are. We might come, but we might not." OK, not exactly polite, but having extended the invitation, I didn't want to withdraw it. Another week went by. This brings us up to THREE DAYS before the wedding. Not surprisingly, we were running right up against the caterer's headcount deadline with no answer from Rude Bob. I asked him yet AGAIN whether or not he and his wife planned to attend our wedding, and his response was something along the lines of "Yeah, if we're not busy, we'll be there." I really was ready to yank the invitation back at this point, but who's thinking rationally three days before their wedding? I let it go and told the caterer to add the extra $150 to our tab.

Wedding day arrived. Everything went off like clockwork--couldn't ask for a more perfect day. I did notice, however, that Rude Bob never made an appearance. On Tuesday morning following the wedding, I went back to work and ran into Rude Bob. I inquired gently about what had happened as far as not turning up at our wedding was concerned, and his response was "Oh, I didn't have time. I ended up working all morning, and didn't feel like going out after that." I can understand this kind of behavior for a cocktail party, but a WEDDING? The wedding of a co-worker you've known for FOUR YEARS? A co-worker with whom you shared an office for 18 months??? A co-worker you've offered to mentor??? As I stood there(stunned into silence), he added "I got you a present, though. I just have to remember to bring it in."

Today is our two-month anniversary. Rude Bob mentions the present nearly every time I see him, but I have yet to see it. If it ever arrives, though, I'll get immense pleasure out of donating it to Goodwill. . . unopened.

A couple of years ago I attended the wedding of a girlfriend of mine. When it was time for her to throw her bouquet, I was one of the women standing behind her in the gaggle of single females. She threw the bouquet, and I looked down and realized to my shock that it had landed neatly in my hands. (Later, she confided that she'd aimed it squarely at me to make sure that I would get it.) Right as the guests saw who caught it and began to clap and cheer, the woman who had been standing next to me screamed, "I've got it! I'VE got it!" and yanked the bouquet out of my hands so violently that I was caught off balance and stumbled a bit. And to top it all off, she waved it above her head like a trophy, tossing a venomous glare at me as if I had snatched the bouquet away from HER!! Of course, I gave it up without a struggle because what goes around comes around, and she's gonna get karma payback in some form or another sooner or later. (HA!) You just have to wonder why people do things like that ..